Problem with flowing text into a text frame with "Type on Path"

[Shlomit Heymann]

Hello,

I have reported this issue in prerelease but recieved no answer so I decided to post it here too. (I could not remember if I did or not but couldn't find that I did).

It's been a longe time since I wanted to report this behavior (perhaps someone did), but for some reason I did not. I came to find this problem when I was working on a unique job but I will only describe the problematic part.

I created a text frame and made it's frame into "Type on Path". I then inserted a horizontal stroke with baseline shift so It will always be on the same distance from the top when I change the text frame's height. The text frame was also defined with Text Wrap (Jump to next column). I did it because there is no way to give a stroke to one side of a text box or any other graphic object (like you can do in a table cell).

The text frame was placed on a parent page, on both sides of the parent spread and was threaded (In my case from Right to Left) like this:

I then went to page 1 I loaded the text I had in another text frame on the pasteboard and shift+Clicked the frame on the first page to auto flow it into these frame I created in the Paren Spread. InDesign didn't recognize that they are threaded in 2 ways:

1. The text flew into the first frame but then it flew into the type on path area.

2. InDesign flew the text only to the Right side pages and ignored that the text frame was threaded.

When a text frame is set with "Type on Path" area,  InDesign prefers to flow the loaded text into that area and will ignore the threaded text frame.

I hope I managed to explain it as I find it a bit complicated.

I did a test on a Right to Left document and also on a Left to Right document and found the same behavior but I only tested in on my Middle Eastern version. 

I also created a video that shows what I was doing.

Can you create this behavior too?

Thank you,

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

When you first click into the text frame you can see your Text Insertion Point blinking in the top on the Path - as it selects the Text Path first.

Click again to access the Text Frame 

It will then show the Text Insertion Point blinking in the Text Area - then Paste the text

Video attached

[Shlomit Heymann]

Thank you @Eugene Tyson but it looks like you didn't follow my description of how to create the problem which is completely difeerent than what you showed me. By now the problem is confirmed to the Middle Eastern Version 2023 & 2024 in Prerelease forums.

all the best,

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

I followed your instructions exactly and completely recreated it from scratch.

If you click too close to the path it will flow into the path.

You have to ensure that you have selected the Text frame and the insertion point is inserted correctly in the frame.

Then it works.

[Shlomit Heymann]

Good Morning @Eugene Tyson 

Did you also see my video?

Becuse what you did is to create a text frame on a regular page, not on a Parent spread as I did, ("The text frame was placed on a parent page, on both sides of the parent spread and was threaded (In my case from Right to Left) like this:") and then you put the insert point inside the text box and used "Fill with placeholder text" and this works for me too but this is not the problem.  

The threaded Text frames should be placed on the Parent Page, you then go to page 1 and either import or load text, Shift+Click inside the text fram in order to auto flow the text (which auto realese it from the master) and only then you can see the bug (Like in my video): It will flow correctly only to the first frame and then InDesign will create more page but will flow the rest of the text into the type on path area. I watched your video and this is not what you did... You didn't place the text frame on the master and you didn't use auto flow on the pages... This is why you got a differen result then mine. 

Thank you,

Shlomit

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann 

Same on Windows, ID 19.3:

[Eugene Tyson]

I saw your video

I recreated it

Fill with placeholder or copy and paste works for me.

I'm not sure where we go from here. 

[Eugene Tyson]

Obviously I'm missing something - but it's working for me - maybe I'm doing something different

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Obviously I'm missing something - but it's working for me - maybe I'm doing something different

By @Eugene Tyson

I've done EXACTLY as @Shlomit Heymann described.

I think you are copy&pasting withing the TextFrame - not by linking from already existing TF? 

[Eugene Tyson]

So why not do it the way it works.

Ill try again.

Not really sure why

[Shlomit Heymann]

dear @Eugene Tyson you are missing the whole point of creating a text frame on master in order to flow - With Text Loaded Icon - the text into the threaded frames that you created on the parents pages.

I have 200 pages of text that I need to place (Import) and then flow it into those text frames in order for InDesign to create new pages and continue flowing the text. In order to demonstrate the problem I created a seperate text frame on the Pasteboard (which you didn't), I Loaded the text (You didn't) and "Shift click" to flow it into the text frame.  Only this way you will se the problem and this is what you're missing. 

all the best,

Shlomit

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann

If you have 200 pages - do every page will have a TextFrame in a different place / with a different height ?

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Robert at ID-Tasker In fact, I have around 7-8 text frames that each one will have a different type of text, and I will have to flow to each one of them it's text frame and after that I will need to move and take care of different heights.

I have 23 books that each one of them has around 300 pages. I need to explain the guy who will type the text how to to type it. So I want to have 7-8 Word docoment that I will flow each one of them their destinated text frame.

So I started to prepare it all and test it, and that's when I saw this problem and reported it to the Prereleas team, the bug was confirmed so I submitted a bug report.  When I find a bug I always write it here in order to help others who will encountered the problem.

thank you:)

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

I'm unsure why you keep trying to use a method that doesn't work.

I thought you came here to find a solution.

I get that you think it's a bug, or maybe it's a bug I don't know. 
I wouldn't approach your situation like this - at all - I don't think anchoring a line on a path above a frame like you do is a good way to do it - although it's quite unique, and an interesting approach.

I'd use a Rule Above for the first paragraph and then another paragraph style for the next paragraph after that - which can be done via styles - Object Styles>Paragraph Styles combination - 
https://www.nobledesktop.com/learn/indesign/object-styles#:~:text=On%20the%20left%2C%20click%20on,kn...

---------------

Out of pure curiosity I tried to figure your solution using your method - and I found a way to flow the text without encountering your problem.

Is there anything else you need help with?

When 1 method doesn't work - there are many other methods that do work.

---------

Thanks for reporting the 'bug' - but as I said, your situation is so unique I don't think many people work like that - again, I could be wrong, it's the first time in 25 years I've seen anyone take this approach.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Eugene Tyson

I don't think your idea with Paragraph Rule for 1st Paragraph in the TextFrame will work - when text is flowing between TextFrames?

[Eugene Tyson]

Should work if it's an object style on the Parent Page let me try it - I'll have to come back soon as I don't have a computer in front of me.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Should work if it's an object style on the Parent Page let me try it - I'll have to come back soon as I don't have a computer in front of me.

By @Eugene Tyson

It can't work as you don't know which ParaStyle will be at the top - body, header, numbered / bullet list, etc. 

[Eugene Tyson]

Yeh I was close with my idea off the top of my head without a computer in front of me.

I have a computer now - so here's another idea that works

Use a paragraph border at the top 

and it applies on every page - as long as all the styles has this setting and they merge - then only the very top gets the line

Works for me

Base all your styles off this one and it will work everywhere - apparently.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann

Adding a line could be easily scripted after you finish your document(s). 

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Robert at ID-Tasker I didn't know that. It will be a good idea if Adobe will not fix this bug. Thank you. 🙂

[Eugene Tyson]

Bugs can take long times to fix after initially reported. Plus it may not be reported by many - whereas there might be more pertinent bugs to fix or put it this way, higher up the list to fix.

I have provided several workarounds, one involving the method you've used but I tweaked it so it worked

Also my other method of using the Paragraph Border setting which absolutely works - I attached a file.

@Robert at ID-Tasker suggests a script might work.

@Rene Andritsch has offered an unconventional method of using a drop shadow above the frame to create the line by tweaking the settings.

All these methods work. 

As you have live projects with 100s of pages to get through - I suggest you ditch the buggy method for now and concentrate on the methods that do work. 

[Nick Passmore]

Rene's suggestion for using a drop shadow is very clever but when I tried to replicate it, although it looks right in InDesign, it seems to disappear when exported to PDF.

I think Robert is right and a script is going to be the best solution.

If you created two object styles (Floating Rule and Top-Ruled Text Frame say) a script could:

• Delete every instance of Floating Rule 
• Find every instance of Top-Ruled Text Frame
• For each Top-Ruled Text Frame draw a rule x points above and apply the Floating Rule object style

I think you are working on a Mac. If so I could have a go at writing something in AppleScript to do this.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Nick Passmore

I think you can skip the part of looking for Top-Ruled Text Frame - just process all TFs of the selected Story.

[Nick Passmore]

Good point Robert.

[Nick Passmore]

@Robert at ID-Tasker The advantage of using an object style for the text frames and deleting all the rules at once is that it avoids the need to keep track of which rules to delete if there are multiple stories.

Anyway here's a brute force attempt. Takes about 30 seconds for 500 text frames. (The user is given the option to see each frame selected before the rule is drawn — but that makes it much slower of course.) 

@Shlomit Heymann Usual caveat, try it on a copy of any file first.

use AppleScript version "2.4" -- Yosemite (10.10) or later
use scripting additions

property RuleOffset : 12
property RuleStyleName : "Floating Rule"
property TextFrameStyleName : "Top-Ruled Text Frame"

tell application id "com.adobe.InDesign"
	set SW to (button returned of (display dialog "Select each text frame?" with title "FEEDBACK" buttons {"Yes", "No"} default button "No"))
	delay 0.1
	if SW is "No" then
		set ShowWorking to false
	else
		set ShowWorking to true
	end if
	activate
	tell document 1
		set FR to object style RuleStyleName
		set TRTF to object style TextFrameStyleName
		try
			delete (every graphic line whose applied object style is FR)
		end try
		set AllFrames to every text frame whose applied object style is TRTF
		repeat with f from 1 to count of items of AllFrames
			set NextFrame to (item f of AllFrames)
			if ShowWorking is true then
				select NextFrame
			end if
			set {y1, x1, y2, x2} to (geometric bounds of NextFrame)
			set WhatPage to (parent page of NextFrame)
			tell WhatPage
				set NewLine to (make new graphic line with properties {geometric bounds:{(y1 - RuleOffset), x1, (y1 - RuleOffset), x2})
			end tell
			set applied object style of NewLine to FR
		end repeat
	end tell
end tell