Random/leading space in paragraph text overflow

[Selina281863466y0m]

For some reason Indesign seems to insert extra spaces inside a paragraph where the text overflows between spreads. This has happened multiple times in my document, which is quite lengthy (200+ pages). Can anyone help it is driving me bonkers? I've tried adding pages and reinserting the text only to have the same thing happen. Sometimes if I adjust the size of the text box it returns to a normal line spacing, but then when I reposition it. Boom. The same thing happens and I'm back to the wacky leading on just that bottom edge line. Have also tried stripping the text to plain text... nothing.

[Peter Spier]

Please show us screen captures of the entire page with non-printing characters and baseline grid visible.

Some things to check: do you have align to grid enabled, What are the Keep Options for the paragraph, what is the Vertical Justification setting for the text frame.

[Selina281863466y0m]

I have it justified with last line aligned left. This is my first project using InDesign so I am learning on the go. Apologies in advance for my lack of knowledge. I have added screenshots of the paragraph setting and the entire page/s samples, as I mentioned it happens quite often throughout the document.

[Peter Spier]

OK.

First off, I admire you for trying to learn this on your own (I'm largely self-taught in a number of fields where I made a living, including InDesign before there was a lot of training available, but I had a lot of experience with other layout apps), but InDesign is very complex and far from intuitive in may areas and some basic training would be very helpful for you.

InDesign is all about styles -- Paragraph Styles and Character Styles, primarily, and all text carries a paragraph style by default, Basic Paragraph, unless you change that. Your screen captures are helpful, but they are not showing the style information, so I don't know for sure what's going on. It does look, however, as if you have a very large value assigned for leading (the space between lines) as well as some paragraph spacing (additional space separating paragraphs) which could be included as space before or space after as part of a style, or as space between paragraphs using the same style. At the moment, my best guess for the  gap at the bottom of the page with the single line at the top of the next page is that the paragraph has a Keep With Next  (n) Lines enabled and due to leading and/or paragraph spacing there is not enough room in the frame for the last line and any text from the next paragraph. Your text is not set to align to the grid, and your vertical justification is not set to justified, which would have spread the text evenly to fill the height of the text frame. Vertical Justification is a text frame property, not a text property, and has nothing to do with how your text is aligned horizonatally.

As I said, InDesign is style-driven, and all of these things can, and should, be controlled by properly defining styles for the various types of paragraphs in your document. The bad news is that all of these things can also be set outside the style by selecting text and changing the setting values in the Paragraph, Character, or Control Panels, creating what are called local overrrides or local formatting, and I suspect that's what has happened in your document. I don't mean to insult you here, but your page has some tell-tale signs of someone used to working in Word without using styles -- empty paragraphs to get space between paragraphs being the most obvious. Fixing a file that is built that way is a very time-consuming project.

[Selina281863466y0m]

Hey, thanks for the reply

Good news is I have been using paragraph styles throughout, and have only used the overrides in a few occasions(applying italics to the references). Mostly, though I will redefine the style or create a new style for purpose. I did place from word though, so there is still some formatting (the paragraph space thing) from that which I might not have fixed. Alhtogh I may have used it once or twice to try and fix an orhpan line.  I have tried to get rid of the paragraph spacers as much as I can by adjusting the styles.

Although I probably need more styles to be able to be more flexible with the titles, for example. I have added the info on the two main styles I use on my screenshots. The leading is pretty large (33) because I felt the text felt cramped smaller. It's probably too big on reflection.

"Your text is not set to align to the grid, and your vertical justification is not set to justified, which would have spread the text evenly to fill the height of the text frame. Vertical Justification is a text frame property, not a text property, and has nothing to do with how your text is aligned horizontally."

I admit I haven't completely gotten my head around the object properties of text frames.

I checked the justification and it aligns to the top.

Vertical justification seems to send to text too close to edges, which I assume by also adjusting the inset spacing.

I have not been able to find how to apply changes to text frames that would flow over threaded spreads. Is that possible? Or do I have to adjust them individually?

I tried initially setting up a text box in my parent spread but found when I placed my chapters they would generate new text boxes over that so I deleted it.

I really appreciate the depth of your response. I did get some basic instructions from a friend on set up and have found the Vasco Elbrecht tutorials online very helpful in setting up the TOC.  The odd spacing between pages had me stumped though and I still have a lot to learn.

[SJRiegel]

have only used the overrides in a few occasions(applying italics to the references)

Instead of overriding to add formatting such as bold or italic to just a few words within a paragrpah, set up a Character Style that contains just the attribute you want to change, and nothing else. By applying those attributes with a Character style, you will insure that they remain styled even if there are changes made to the Paragraph style. 

To get rid of the extra paragraph returns, you can use the preset built in to the Find/Change pallet. Multiple Returns to Single Return. 

[Selina281863466y0m]

Thanks! I did end up making a character style called citationitalic after accidentally undoing the manual override. Part of the problem was the font family naming was different between Word and InDesign (italic vs oblique). Eventually, figured out if I reassigned the missing font I didn't have to fix it manually. That was a good day. Will definitely explore using the find/change pallet to tidy my returns. This place is gold. 🙂

[Peter Spier]

First, I'm impressed with the how much you've accomplished here on the styles. Amd thanks for not being offended by my comments.

The remarks about the grid alignment and vertical justification could have been clearer, problably. They were observation that they didn't apply and were not the cause of the problem. Grid alignemnt can be useful, particularly in a long doc to keep lines level across a spread, but I personally find text frames with vertically justified text to be poor form, especially in a facing pages document, so I advocate against making a change from top aligned.

Your Baskerville Body style does indeed have a space between paragraphs with same style of 4 mm set along with Keep with Next 1 line, so I was correct about the cause of that gap. Not sure why you want the keep with next option for body text. I would normally use it with headings to be sure they don't get separated from waht they describe. In body text they can lead to orphaned lines and gaps as you've discovered.

You can create Object Styles for text frames (there is one already built in which you can edit, or create new ones) and new frames will be styled according to which style is set as the default (drag the little "T" icon to the style you want to use in the list). Unlike the [Basic Graphics Frame Style] and setting a default for graphics frame, setting defaults for text frames actuyally works. New graphics frames since day one have been hard coded to have no fill or stroke (object style [None] ) and there's nothing you can do to get around that behavior.

[Selina281863466y0m]

Hey, all good @Peter Spier. I am still super apprentice level so totally open to learn from others with more experience. I probably accidently checked it not really understanding what I was doing with the keep with next 1, I am a bit embarrassed to say. Have now removed that from my Baskerville body paragraph style. Checked the keep lines together, to avoid the orphans and runts, and that has seemed to help solve that the problem as well meaning less empty paragraphs (Thanks @SJRiegel ).

I did start applying the vertical justification but you are right about it not always working, I found sometimes it just stretched the text out in the frame making it look wacky. So it was the gap between the paragraph paired with the 'keep with next 1' that was messing me up.

Can't say how awesome it is to have that problem fixed it has been totally driving me nuts. I would love to do full a course on Indesign once I submit my document and get a better grip on all these options.

[Geоrge]

What about to force text refllow? 

Here you go - 

https://creativepro.com/force-text-reflow-when-indesign-forgets-to-flow-the-text/

[Selina281863466y0m]

This literally just happened to me! Almost lost five pages of references and only fixed it by using the cmd z to get them back and then deleting and restyling a rogue line. This is also super helpful. Thanks @Geоrge