Style management: Object style based on another object style

[Leah_MTMPLS]

I am trying to create an object style that specifies x,y position and width, and then create other styles based on that one. However, it appears that size and position do not stay synchronized with the parent object style. Is this a bug or is this how it actually operates? I want to be able to keep that specification in one style and not have to update it in 3 other styles if things change. 

[Eugene Tyson]

I understand the issue you're facing, and I can see how it's causing confusion.

I wouldn’t classify it as a bug, but it’s definitely something that could be improved as a future enhancement.

What’s happening is that the frame is initially tied to the first object style. However, when you edit the size and position, it breaks the link to the original style. Once that link is broken, any changes made to the original style will no longer affect the frame.

You can make feature requests here

https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601021-adobe-indesign-feature-requests

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Eugene Tyson

I think OP is referring to Styles - not objects?

Anyway, change to the formatting of the object is classed as an override - so any change to the applied style will be ignored - same as it's with Char / ParaStyles - you need to clear override first. Or Master Page items. 

[jmlevy]

Hmm… I disagree with you, @Robert at ID-Tasker 

Let's say that you create a paragraph style (name it 1) using Helvetica Neue Roman, 12 pt then create a new style (named 2) based on style 1, whose the only difference is that it's Helvetica Neue Bold instead of Roman. If you modify afterwards the font size of style 1, font size of style 2 will be also modified.

It should be the same for an object style: you should be able to create an object style whose attributes are for example a 10 cm x 10 cm blue square, then create a second object style based on the first one whose size is the same but using a different color. It would be logical that if you change the size in the first object style, the size will also change in the second object style.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Hmm… I disagree with you, @Robert at ID-Tasker 

Let's say that you create a paragraph style (name it 1) using Helvetica Neue Roman, 12 pt then create a new style (named 2) based on style 1, whose the only difference is that it's Helvetica Neue Bold instead of Roman. If you modify afterwards the font size of style 1, font size of style 2 will be also modified.

By @jmlevy

Yes, becuase in the child style - you are not modifying PointSize - it is "available" to being modified by the parent.

But size & position of the object - has been determined by coders - as this object's unique properties - DETERMINED when object is created.

Then, when you change this property in the Style - initial values - in child element(s) - style or object itself - are "more important".

You can "clear overrides" by clicking "Reset to Base" - but ONLY after switching tabs in the ObjectStyle definition first - by default, it is grayed out.

It should be the same for an object style: you should be able to create an object style whose attributes are for example a 10 cm x 10 cm blue square, then create a second object style based on the first one whose size is the same but using a different color. It would be logical that if you change the size in the first object style, the size will also change in the second object style.

By @jmlevy

There is kind of a workaround - when you create your CHILD ObjStyle - you have to "uncheck" set of propertes you want to ignore:

Then, apply this ObjStyle to your newly created object.

Then, after you've applied this new ObjStyle to the object - you can check it and it will use size & positon of the parent ObjStyle definition - and will follow changes in the parent ObjStyle.

Looks like - in the case of ObjStyles - you need to follow specific steps.

[jmlevy]

But size & position of the object - has been determined by coders - as this object's unique properties - DETERMINED when object is created.

Then, when you change this property in the Style - initial values - in child element(s) - style or object itself - are "more important".

The point is I did not change the size between object style 1 (50 mm, blue fill) and object style 2 (50 mm, yellow fill)

If I add a stroke to object style 1, this stroke is also applied to object style 2, as expected. If I change the tint value of the blue fill color of object style 1, it also changes the tint value of the yellow fill of object style 2. So, why the dimensions changes in the object style 1 are not replicated in the object style 2 since this values have not been overriden in object style 2. Try it…

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@jmlevy

Yes, I've tried just before I've posted my reply.

As I've said - looks like size & position - isn't automaticaly inheritable by the child - you have to untick it first, before applying to the object. 

Size & position is one of the properties extremely specific to the object - so looks like coders treated it that way - unique to the object. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Leah_MTMPLS

You have formatting based on / applied through Style - and you have local formatting applied directly.

Local formatting always overrides what is in the style. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

I just tested it and you are correct. I made a parent style and a child (based-on) style. Then I edited the size of the parent, the child was not modified, unlike how most parent/child settings work. There were no overrides on either object.

I noticed this was in the InDesign User Voice as a feature request, although I would say it is a bug.

https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601021-adobe-indesign-feature-requests/suggestions/44540442-ch...

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Dave Creamer of IDEAS

I think it's a deliberate action from coders.

If you try what I've tested - create a child ObjectStyle, untick Size & Position options, apply to newly created object, then tick it again - changes made in the parent are reflected on the child style.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

@Robert at ID-Tasker 

Possibley deliberate but could have been an oversite by the programmers. The Size & Position was a later feature* and it was probably overlooked or decided to diffcult to impliment. However, it goes against most other parent/child settings in the program. 

*Object styles were added in 2005 but size/position options were added in 2017.