Suggestions on InDesign "design" forums?

[RossM1982]

My daughter is taking a non-credit InDesign class this summer at her univeristy. (I think it covers more than InDesign but that's the core.) Unfortunately, it's an online class that utlizes the Lynda videos, so there isn't a lot of instructor interaction. She took it for fun but with the instructor absent it's becoming a bit frustrating.

She's looking for a forum or public group where she can get guidance on best workflow and design practices in InDesign, or even just answers to some beginner design questions. For example, she was showing me last night that some of the Lynda videos recommend coordinating your baseline grid to your layout guides - so if your gutter is 18 would you set up your baseline grid to be 18 as well? She asked me that last night and I didn't have an answer for her.

The Lynda videos are fine for what they do, but it's kind of hard to find an answer to a specific question without searching several videos. Does anyone have suggestions for a non-toxic forum or public group for beginners in this area. If not, that's fine. I just thought I'd ask here.

Have a good day.

[Steve Werner]

Adobe's forums are pretty much restricted to answering questions about their products.

Here are a couple other forums outside the Adobe world where InDesign would be discussed. (Note: I don't participate in these so she'll have to check them out for usefulness.)

https://www.graphicdesignforum.com/

https://www.howdesign.com/design-forum-join-the-graphic-design-community/

[Randy Hagan]

I'd recommend going to her friendly neighborhood community paper, and if they'll let her, auditing an issue from start of production (editorial and advertising) through deadline. It may not be the perfect workflow model (if there is such a thing), but it will be a practical and effective one. Deadlines get made, and issues go out the door. As she gets further through her class, she'll be able to judge for herself whether the workflow is efficient — and how she could improve on where it's not so.

And FWIW, I'd suggest if she learns how to spec a leading grid and faithfully execute it, and learns how size/scale InDesign elements across multi-columns in a properly set up column grid, she'll have a solid understanding of how to place and arrange layout pieces North, South, East and West. InDesign's tools are nice, but with a solid understanding of the process, not entirely necessary.

For my InDesign classes, I recommend three books for review:

Effective Newspaper Design, by Edmund Arnold. This tome sets rules and standards, not only for newspapers, but most any visual design project in print and digital media. It offers a solid set of rules for designers to live by.

The Art of Advertising, by George Lois. It's probably the best book I've ever found about how to break all those rules.

And the hardest book to find (unfortunately),

The Adobe Print Publishing Guide, Third Edition. This offers how to apply all the lessons from the first two books into (ancient) Adobe applications. It's hard to find, but still available used in used bookstores online. And Boy — does Adobe need to produce a Fourth Edition!

Again, InDesign tool features are nice, and a lot easier to teach students than design and production workflow. As a contract computer trainer generally teaching one- and two-day classes, I'm guilty of it myself. That's a job better served in an internship than a classroom environment. Lynda.com courses touch on some design skills, but short of spending a fortune on Art School and slaving over design briefs, these three books offer the fastest practicum I've found.

Hope this helps,

Randy

[Kevin Stohlmeyer]

Have you tried looking for a local Adobe or InDesign user group?

Adobe User Group directory

[Barb Binder]

Hi Ross:

LinkedIn Learning (they took over Lynda.com) is in the process of adding Q&A tabs to their classes. See Q&A feature.

She can also ask her questions here on the forums, and note that many of the LinkedIn Learning instructors volunteer here on the forums so she may hear right from the source.

Out of curiosity, which video was she watching that mentioned coordinating the baseline grid to the layout guides?

~Barb

[Geоrge]

Best practice is a work as apprentice for free with some "guru" (some print-shop or newspaper near to the house). Here the summer - best time for this.

[jane-e]

She can always ask here!

This video on lynda.com from Nigel French will help: Designing with Grids in InDesign

The grid size should match the leading in the body text.

~ Jane

[Peter Villevoye]

I'm glad you're endorsing the guidance of a real person (e.g. a teacher or a professional designer). Many online resources are not very good at telling the story behind many features and methods. It's the why that's often lacking from all these how-to videos and articles. And that's a pity because most people are so much better in picking up a workflow when they understand the reasons for it, in stead of just accepting a certain instruction.

Books are often more inclined to spend more time and attention to valuable backgrounds and reasoning. I always love to refer to any design book(s) of David Dabner. They're almost tool-agnostic and give perfect insight in the basics of design of print media and even design in general. Just Google "dabner design​" and pick a few. Money well spent !

[RossM1982]

Okay, thank you to everyone for the many answers. And to be clear, her questions are primarily design, best practices questions.

I'm a little confused - and I apologize. Did I misunderstand Steven Werner when he said these questions weren't appropriate for this forum? Questions should be limited to questions specifically about Adobe products. Makes sense to me and I certainly don't want to direct her here only to have her get sent somewhere else.

Randy Hagan : Thanks for the book suggestions. I passed them onto her and we discussed getting them.

Also thanks for the suggestions of local groups. I don't know if there's anything in the community, but there may be something on campus that she can use. Adobe has a rather large presence on our campus.

BarbBinder : There were two I believe and maybe more. Designing Magazine Layouts by Nigel French and another one that I can't find quickly (sorry at work and have my own summer class to teach shortly) by the same author. If I recall, she said it was common principle or theme in the videos. I do know she had a calcuator and was trying to figure the ratio(?) or spacing for her guildes and the baseline grid - so her text would easily line up with the other elements on the page.

This is the gist of what she was trying to do: understanding the relationship between layout guides and the baseline grid. But it's not the only question she's had in this course. As a faculty member myself, I'm kind of frustrated with absenteeism of her teacher but I guess it's an online course.

Actually, I just read jane-e post and I think that was the other video she was looking at.

Anyway, thanks to every for the help. I'll try to look at this again before I leave for the day. I am passing this information onto her.

[jane-e]

Hi Ross,

I know Nigel from various conferences where we've chatted and I've assisted at many of his workshops. I think I know what you are talking about, but give us the spot in the video and I'll watch it again.

He is very, very precise when he lays out a document. Once he has the leading, he uses math to determine the margins and design grid (not baseline grid) so everything falls together perfectly.

For the baselines to line up across multiple columns, it's not as hard. You need to:

1. See the grid (can toggle this off after its set and in use)
   View menu or View Options button
2. Set the grid
   Preferences: Set the increment to the body text leading > Start Zero from the top margin > Set the view threshold to a zoom level you can see at Fit on Screen zoom.
3. Use the grid
   Best practice is to use Paragraph Styles to apply the baseline grid to text. Headings can be skipped if desired and space above and below can be used instead.

Yes, ask here. Start a new topic for each question.

~ Jane

[jane-e]

If there is not a group on campus already, here is the link for her to become a student rep:

Adobe Student representatives « Adobe Education

Your Chance To Become An Adobe Student Rep | Creative blog by Adobe

[Randy Hagan]

First, thank you for the kind words as well. I'm always happy to help.

Maybe I'm putting words in Steve's mouth, but I think he was indicating that the focus of this forum is on the mechanics of InDesign and not how to design with it. I don't think he meant to imply it was an inappropriate topic. Just that it wouldn't generate the interest and consideration the subject deserved. As I confessed myself, in my training classes I give design theory and practice short shrift. My response to you was easy to share quickly because I spent a minute or two sharing at the start of most every InDesign (or Quark, or dating myself, PageMaker) class I ever taught.

When I was in northern New England, I'd get a student or two a semester from a really good nearby Art College who was determined to learn more about how digital design tools worked. I was happy to oblige, because the College of Art taught design theory and practice. And taught it well. I never ran them down — well, almost never — because instructors there had a different mission than me. I was happy to do my part to fill in the gaps.

[Steve Werner]

Perhaps I read your message too quickly. I thought she was looking for questions about how to design something. We tend not to get into critiquing work and making design suggestions. That's why I was directing you to forums where those issues come up more.

We definitely can help with best practices, particularly about how to set up files well, how to get them printed, and so on.

[Peter Villevoye]

To touch on the why behind the Baseline Grid:

It's nothing less and a bit more than the lines in your ordinary notebook:

It gives an orderly appearance to most texts, when they're on a regular interval of baselines. Especially with multiple columns in books,magazines, and brochures, the layout tends to look more sophisticated and clean when text columns begin and/or end on the same lines.

And it's not just an aesthetic reason – there's a physical one as well. When the paper is fairly thin (to save weight or money), you'd be able to see written or printed lines of text on the one side of the sheet shine through on the other side, rendering each side a bit messy and less clear to read. This effect will be less disturbing when most text on both sides is registered on the same lines.

So the distance between the baselines follows the cadence of the line height. If you're text is i.e. 10 points, and its line height 12 points, then that's the right incremental distance for the baseline grid.

Of course all these lines are guides, to help you – not forcing you. So you can neglect them whenever you want or need to. E.g. to make something stand out from the regular pattern, in order to bring first or more attention to it.