text boxes and parent pages

[beno41599860]

Hi, all --

I made a quick vid asking my question. This is re adjusting text box properties for all text boxes using a parent page.

Link. It's my personal site:

INDD question

Thanks!

Ben

INDD question

[Peter Spier]

First, to select the frame on the Parent Page, try holding down the mouse and draging from the gutter into the frame.

Second, I suspect when you were looking at the text frame options dialog you had no frame selected, so you weere in fact setting a new default for new text frames in the document, not affecting anyting existing.

[beno41599860]

Thanks, Peter. No luck with that mouse technique though.

[Peter Spier]

Is that page based on another? Just to be sure, you are using the selection tool, not the text tool, right?

You could also try Ctrl + A to select all, then deselect waht you don't want.

[beno41599860]

Parent Page 2 is based NONE. Yes, I've tried the selection tool and direct selection tool.

[Peter Spier]

Locked layer or locked object?

[beno41599860]

Hi, Peter. Even with all layers unlocked I can't select the frame. I've shared the file in reply to Robert. Would love it if you took a look. Many thanks.

[Peter Spier · Accepted solution]

Sorry for the delay -- time zones and the need to sleep occasionally.

I've looked at the file, and as @Robert at ID-Tasker notes it was created inan earlier version quite some time ago. The reason you can't select the text frame on the P2 Parent Page is because it isn't there. In fact, there is no frame for your body text on any of your Parent Pages.

Your text seems to be contained in a single thread that begins on page i which is based on the CH Parent, which in turn is based on the T parent, and neither of those has a frame for the body text, so it appears to me that way back at the beginning you simply placed the text and flowed it on the live page, so there is no way for you to make an adjustment in one place on the Parent Pages.

All is not lost, however. Go to File > Adjust Layout...

In the Layout Adjustment dialog be sure the Austo-adjust margins box is UNchecked and the margins are not linked (broken chan link icon), then increase the value for your top margin by the amount you were going to increase the frame inset.

Your running header and page number frames are on the Parent pages and can be moved there as needed. Your headers look like they will move with the top margin automatically, but that might not be where you wanrt them.

Also, I suspect you need to revisit your assigned page numbering. Page 1 is in the middle of the Ballad of the Scapegoat section, and your first chapter starts on page 3. Your other chapter starts may move as well after the layout adjustment, so you'll need to check carefully, and for overset text.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Right, so I misunderstood the problem 😞 sorry. 

But I would do it a bit differently. 

Delete all the pages with the main Story - but, of course, leave FIRST TextFrame. 

Then, edit margins on the Parent Page, re-align this first TextFrame - and just reflow main text. 

[Peter Spier]

Layout adjustment does the same thing in one step...

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Layout adjustment does the same thing in one step...

By @Peter Spier

Yes, of course. 

But if on some pages - there were some local overrides to the margins - I'm not sure adjust will work correctly? Sorry, can't check that right now. 

And - in my case - it would be possible to even add Primary TextFrame.

(can't upvote your posts - another broken thread? At least I was able to mark your answer as correct) 

[Peter Spier]

As long as frames are snapped to margins they will move with layout adjustment.

There are always other ways to skin this cat -- make a new file and adjust the margins and add the text frames to the Parent Pages, then copy the text and flow it into the new file, for example, to have a completely clean start.

I think it all depends on how much time and effort @beno41599860 wants to expend and what the plan migh be going forward. Sounds like he's ready to go to print, so quich and dirty (layout adjustment) may be all he wants.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

As long as frames are snapped to margins they will move with layout adjustment.

[...]

By @Peter Spier

Yes, of course, but if there are some discrepancies - those TextFrames will be resized proportionally.

I'm of course exaggerating:

But "rebuilding" Story from scratch - and as @beno41599860 mentioned, that this is an inherited file done by someone else, and originally created years ago - 15 February 2017 - and on a Mac - "cleaning it up" won't hurt? And won't take too much extra time?

And here is one more thing - and I'm even doing it on the Saved As file:

If I'll change width of the TextFrame - by ANY amount - in this case 0.01mm - text shifts instantly...

The same effect is when doing Adjust Layout instead... so this file DEFINITELY requires doing it from scratch...

[beno41599860]

Hi, all. I want to say thanks for investigating and providing these insights. What if I told you this file was made from a an InDesign file provided by a print-on-demand publisher/platform, obtained in 2023? I don't understand yet just how faulty their methodology (or lack thereof) might be in making their templates. But I will definitely be modifying the template locally so I have a better-built file to work from on future books. What I don't understand is what is the box shown on the Page 2 master, if it's not a text box that's there? Some kind of guide?

[Peter Spier]

@beno41599860 there's probably noting particularly "wrong" with the template, as far as it goes. It's just showing you the area that you should use for your layout with the areas they want you to leave clear of important information shown in color. And your numbering might not actually be off -- when I wrote that I had forgotten I opened the file with missing fonts, which will definitely affect the text flow, but you still need to check after you make corrections to the layout.

As far as what's on the P2 master page, there's a guide, which serves no useful purpose that I can see and the text frames you've added for headers and footers. That big "box" is just the margin guides from the document setup and corresponds to the open area for you to use as you see fit.

I suppose ideally they would expect you to put both header and footer and body text frames into this area, but that seems a little extreme to me, though I would say you probably would want to leave 3/8 inch clear top and bottom to allow for cutter mis-alignment. From your video it looks like there is, in fact, a misalignment in the proof, but I can't see the page bottoms. Are the page number footers higher than you expected? In the file the bottom of the numbers is set to be about a quarter inch from the edge. The tops of the headers in the file are set at about 5/16 inch from the edge.

If there's a misialignment shift in the proof I think you can reasonably expect there to be the same in the final run so it would be safest to allow more space, rather than less.

[beno41599860]

One last post. Adjusting margins was remarkably elegant and simple for my needs right now. I didn't really need the chapter heads to move down on CH master pages, but that's OK. A little more space on those pages is good too. Here's a single spread with guides on showing the end results. Thanks @Peter Spier for the heads-up on the page numbering error too. 

[Peter Spier]

@beno41599860 you can always go back and adjust the frame heights on the chapter head pages individually if you like.

[Peter Spier]

With the Parent Page selected, do you see the text frame in the Layers Panel?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@beno41599860

Can you share your document? 

Please click my nickname if you prefer to send it privately. 

Or can you zoom in on this TextFrame - maybe it's locked?

Can you also open Layers panel - and post some screenshots.

OR as you're on Windows - you could use my ID-Tasker tool to get complete structure of the Document - and quickly find this TextFrame.

[beno41599860]

Hi, it's the only file in this shared OneDirectory. I'll see if I can figure out if the frame is locked. I did also look at layers and made no progress. Thanks!   4R - First proof

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@beno41599860 

It's just sitting unlocked - free to move - on the "P2-Page2" Master/Parent Page?

And if you change Layer's color to something more visible 😉

(free Browsing part / Doc's structure)

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@beno41599860 

It's just sitting unlocked - free to move - on the "P2-Page2" Master/Parent Page?

What version of InDesign are you using? 

Maybe it somehow "fixed" when I've opened it on my laptop?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

And this file is 8 years old ?? first created on 15 February 2017, on a Mac.

Size difference after re-saving: 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@beno41599860 

A potential problem?

(free Browsing part / Doc's structure)

CharStyles look rather OK?

(free Browsing part / Doc's structure)

All TextFrames of the "main" story are on the same Layer:

(free Browsing part / Doc's structure)