P: 10.2 Grain Effects Render Incorrectly In Develop Module

[Todd Shaner]

The Develop module no longer properly renders the Grain Effect settings in LrC 10.2, which appear much more pronounced and correct in the Library module and exported files. I tested with GPU enabled and disabled with LrC restarted and the issue persists on my Windows 10 system.

The below screenshots are with LrC 10.2 using Grain settings Amount 100, Size 50, and Roughness 100.

LrC10.2DevelopvsLibraryGrainDi-c92c4439-ebf9-4b14-98cf-107586207dee-1310254250.jpg

[pgmanuel]

Have you tried comparing the Library and Develop view at 100%.

I can reproduce what you have described while at Fit view which for Nikon D850 NEFs is a zoom level of 36.7%. When I increase the zoom level (using the slider in the Library toolbar) to around 60% and greater any difference between Library and Develop is not visible.

[Todd Shaner]

Yes, at 60% and higher zoom view the Library and Develop previews look near identical. With LrC 10.0 and earlier versions even the Develop Fit zoom view looked identical so something has changed with LrC 10.2.

The Library module preview looks identical to the export image file at matching Zoom/Resize settings. For example at 50 % zoom view the Library preview looks identical to a 50% 'Resize to Fit' export file. We need this capability in the Develop module since that is where we adjust the Grain Effect settings (i.e. visual feedback).

[ievgenm77407445]

Can also reproduce the same, grain is not rendered correctly in develop when in fit, zoomed in works fine. Win 10 20H2 x64, LrC 10.2, 4K display 150% scaling, tested with GPU ON and OFF, Smart Previews disabled. Please consider issuing a 10.2.1 hotfix for this. Otherwise with how the things have been going, next 10.x update might fix more bugs and break something else from the main/critical functionality. This way we'll at least get a proper relatively stable fallback version with the most recent new features (10.2 looks like a good candidate for this so far, except this issue). It's getting frustrating being stuck in this loop (2 bugs down, 3 new ones pop up, rollback as workaround/etc). As a suggestion to the test/dev team: consider adding automated testing for develop mode (and maybe library Loupe mode) to validate on-screen render and export results against reference images to cover all develop tools. This could benefit both devs and users a lot. Or at least consider adding a policy of thoroughly checking functionality of the develop tool across modules after something has been tweaked and fixed in it.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

In Preferences > Performance, is Prefer smart previews for editing turned on or off?

[ievgenm77407445]

Smart Previews turned off

[Todd Shaner]

My example uses the full-size 6000x4000px original photo with Use Smart Previews Preferences setting turned off.

[lawrence_murray]

I think I'm having an issue with the way noise/grain is being rendered in the editing view on my images (.jpg)

When switching between photos, the correct grain is being rendered for a split second before the full photo loads with apparent incorrect grain values. The fully loaded image seems to be rendering a de-noised version, showing little noise even when setting the grain slider to 100. Seems to have started happening after the new update.

(M1 MacBook)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Todd, 

Is the result the same in Camera Raw?

[Todd Shaner]

@Rikk

Using the same settings as in my screenshots above the file inside ACR 13.2 looks the same as LrC 10.2 Develop module. After opening the file from ACR into PS it matches the rendering observed in the LrC 10.2 Library module. ACR 13.2 is exhibiting the same issue with Grain Effect preview rendering as LrC10.2.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Please go to Help>System Info… and get us the exact installed version number of your software. 

Is it possible for you to record and post a video showing the change?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

That tells me it is likely a Camera Raw bug.  I will get it logged. 

[stevemoon]

Same here with me. I'm currently in the process of upgrading from Lightroom 6.14 to Lightroom Classic 10.2 on a 7 Day free trial. Once it was installed and everything updated, everything seemed fine. All my presets worked after changing them to .xmp, the catalog was successfully updated and it was a smooth transition. However, I immediately spotted that the Develop module FIT mode was way off compared to the Library. It's annoying because when you are trying to set the grain amount, you want to be able to see it correctly to judge the amount. I was having to add grain in Develop, jump to Library to see it rendered and determine if it was right, then back again to try and guess another amount.

To determine if I was going crazy, I opened LR6 again and ran through the same process and everything was as it should be. The only work around I have found after reading pages of suggestions, is to install LRc 9.4. then everything works as it should. This isn't something that works for me though - I only did it out of curiosity - as the reason for updating is that I'm getting a new camera this week that has only been added in this new 10.2 update. I am also on a 7 day free trial, so timing is of the essence really as I don't want to lock myself into a new annual subscription for something that doesn't work as well as my previous version.

[Todd Shaner]

"I am also on a 7 day free trial, so timing is of the essence really as I don't want to lock myself into a new annual subscription for something that doesn't work as well as my previous version."

I'm confident Adobe will fix this issue since it should be easy to identify what specific change in LrC 10.2 caused it. For now you can use the Quick Develop Grain Presets and/or create your own custom Develop presets with Grain settings  that you normally use. Granted it's not as "flexible" as using the controls directly, but it should help until Adobe fixes the issue. Just a suggestion.

[stevemoon]

Thank you for the suggestion. I know it's not the end of the world and I do have grain presets saved with varying degrees of strength etc. However, it must only be a temporary work around as it is an integral park of my workflow and you can't really judge the aesthetics of grain when you're zoomed in to 100% I find.

I'll stick with LrC 9.4 until my camera arrives sometime in the next week or so and then hopefully I can upgrade to 10.2.1 with a fix in place.

[lawrence_murray]

@Rikk 

This only happens on my Mac after the new update.

My windows 10 version has not been updated yet and doesn't have the same issue. I've set the grain to 100 which should show significant grain, but it appears to de-noise aggressively. 

I've compared the grain rendering between the Mac and PC and it shows a clear difference. I've attached the logs below and a link to a screen recording on the Mac. (drive link at the bottom)

Lightroom version: 4.2 MAS arm64 [ 20210301-0713-6cdd6a3 ] (Mar  2 2021)

NGL Version: 1.24.0.5

WF Version: 3.2 88d676d

Operating system: macOS

OS Version: macOS 11.2.3 (20D91)

Application architecture: arm64

Computer model: MacBookAir10,1 / Apple M1

Logical processor count: 8

Processor speed: 0.0 GHz

Built-in memory: 8,192.0 MB

Real memory available to Lightroom: 8,192.0 MB

Real memory used by Lightroom: 228.8 MB (2.7%)

Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 403,302.5 MB

Memory cache size: 917.0 MB

Internal Camera Raw version: 13.2 [ 738 ]

Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5

Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2

Camera Raw virtual memory: 523MB / 4095MB (12%)

Camera Raw real memory: 0MB / 8192MB (0%)

Displays: 1) 2880x1800

Graphics Processor Info: Metal: Apple M1 - 5.5 GB

Graphics Processor Detail: loaded: Yes, supported: Yes, compute: Yes, init: I4_GPU3, hard: success, soft: success, wl: Yes, bl: No

OS Media Capability: true

Application Folder: /Applications

Settings Folder: /Users/lawrence/Library/Containers/com.adobe.mas.lightroomCC/Data/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Lightroom CC

Library Folder: /Users/lawrence/Pictures/Lightroom Library.lrlibrary

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zanzmyx0sKlQRR9I1FEOldQCxY26pArB?usp=sharing

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This thread is being merged into an existing authoritative thread for better tracking and response. Please review the official answer (if any) in the second post on the thread for more information. 

[lawrence_murray]

Just to confirm, I am using Lightroom CC and the main thread is Lightroom Classic. So it appears to be an issue on both versions with the new update.

Also, I am mostly using .jpg format and the main thread is raw, so it suggest it's an issue not restricted to one particular image format.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

And Camera Raw is also affected

[ievgenm77407445]

Thanks for logging it @Rikk , we'd be very grateful if you can push for a LrC_10.2.1/CR_13.2.1/LR_4.2.1 hotfix release, if possible.

[William Scalia]

I'm having the same issues in Camera Raw 13.2. Grain is rendering strange. 

[robertod93911732]

Is this the same issue that was presented on LR Classic 10.0.0 ??  If so, this bug has been around since the release of v10 back in October..  What's going on Adobe?

[Todd Shaner]

The issue is not present in LrC 10.0.

[robertod93911732]

Humm.. strange I have this grain issue and a thumbnail preview issue since v10.0.. it is present when using LR v10.x and MacOS Big Sur,  it was not present with LR 9.4..

Because of this bugs i'm still stock with LR 9.4

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-101-thumbnails-erra...

[avatar230]

Since updating to 10.2, I'm seeing the addition of what looks like grain or noise to my images when Zoom is set to anything EXCEPT "Fit" "Fill" or "100%." 

The problem goes away immediately if I hit "F" for full screen mode (even if I leave the zoom set at, for instance, 25%) or if I enter the Develop module. (This may be related to the way LR is now handling Standard previews and perhaps to the fix that was just implemented to the former color shift bug?)

A lot of my workflow relies on TIFFs of black and white film scans. These are the images where the problem is most apparent.

I'm running LR on macOS 11.2.3.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This thread is being merged into an existing authoritative thread for better tracking and response. Please review the official answer (if any) in the second post on the thread for more information.