P: Gen Remove now changes elements outside the painted mask

[Thomas Steen Petersen]

The update to the Generative Remove AI model in Lightroom Classic 14.5 has ruined it, as it now changes elements outside the painted mask, making it more or less unusable in many situations.

[krishna.singh]

@Thomas Steen Petersen  Thank you for sharing the screen shot. We had been testing with this specific example image, which was provided by you. We do get better results sometimes but it is likely due to the randomness associated with generative AI. 

[Thomas Steen Petersen]

@krishna.singh @Rikk Flohr: Photography 
Before the Lightroom 14.5 update in August, the Remove Tool was very powerful, and you could always trust that only pixels inside the selected area were changed. I understand that AI has some inherent randomness, which is fine, since you can simply regenerate the result until you’re satisfied. What I don’t understand is why Adobe chose to let the Remove Tool modify pixels outside the selected area. It worked beautifully before this change. What is the purpose of this new behavior?

[James22924775n061]

I must agree with @Thomas Steen Petersen, editing stuff outside the mask makes this pretty unusable for me.

I'm still getting results that, honestly, don't look great.

As mentioned by others, the behaviour prior to all this was much more controllable.

Can we go back to how this was before where edits are made completey inside the mask? 

[Jonathan_Seattle]

Adobe was trying to make it easier to use. Inexperienced users were having trouble selecting everything necessary, such as shadows, so they tried to make it smarter, to automatically select shadows. The result was a huge disappointment. I've reverted to LC 14.4 until they fix this issue. Supposedly it is fixed as of yesterday, but I'll wait to hear if the problem is really resolved. I have thousands of images to edit and can't afford this sort of issue.

[Thomas Steen Petersen]

@Rikk Flohr: Photography

I’m very saddened that the status has been changed to fixed, because it is far from fixed. In my view, it is not fixed until you can trust that only the selected area is affected by the Remove Tool. As it is now, I’m left with the feeling that I no longer control the tool. It worked so well before.

I have a few questions:

1. Does the fixed status mean that there is absolutely no chance that Adobe will reconsider this change and restore the Remove Tool to the well-functioning tool it once was?

2. Is the change in behavior of the Remove Tool in version 14.5 and newer — as some have suggested — intended to help inexperienced users who may struggle to paint precise masks (for example around shadows), and if so, has this been done at the expense of professionals and enthusiastic, skilled hobbyists?

[Dazzling_Melody8494]

It is not fixed!!! I can hardly see any difference vs 14.5

I'm still using version LrC 14.4, but you Adobe screwed all mobile users who can't downgrade. I can't use LR on iPad anymore! It's ridiculous!

[johnrellis]

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I retried the sample photo posted by @Thomas Steen Petersen and got the same results as in LR 14.5 and LR 15.0:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-gen-remove-now-changes-elements-outside-the-...

I don't see any change -- Generative AI Remove is still coloring outside the lines. Here's the careful selection of the building behind the chimneys and roofs:

And here's the result, where the chimneys outside the selection have been significantly changed:

[johnrellis]

@Jonathan_Seattle: "Adobe was trying to make it easier to use. Inexperienced users were having trouble selecting everything necessary, such as shadows, so they tried to make it smarter, to automatically select shadows."

That's always been my assumption too. I helped many dozens of users with the prior version:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

and the most common complaint was that Remove would "replace" rather than "remove".  In nearly all these cases, though, selecting the shadows and reflections of the object to be removed would yield an excellent result.  Often the shadows or reflections weren't obvious, and infrequently, Remove would get fooled into mistakenly identifying a shadow or reflection.

For very simple removals, the current version does an adequate job and replaces the shadows and reflections even if they're not selected. But as many have observed, it often colors outside the lines, producing unacceptable results. 

It's seemed pretty clear to me that the LR product managers have explicitly chosen to make Remove easy for inexperienced and casual use, sacrificing the more complicated and sophisticated use cases. This may be an instance where the technology isn't able to serve both sets of use cases with a single feature.

[Thomas Steen Petersen]

@johnrellis 
I agree with you that the Remove Tool may not work optimally for both inexperienced and skilled users. There is no one-size-fits-all solution in this situation. That said, Lightroom is an application with a strong focus on professional users, and it should avoid prioritizing simplicity at the expense of precision and control. A possible feature request could be to introduce an expert mode for the Remove Tool, selectable either in Lightroom’s preferences or directly from the tool menu.

[johnrellis]

@Thomas Steen Petersen, see here for how to post a feature request:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-how-do-i-write-a-feature-request/idi-p/1238...

If you submit a request, post its link here to encourage us to upvote it and add our own constructive feedback.

[Thomas Steen Petersen]

@johnrellis

Thanks for the link to the instructions on how to submit a feature request, and for the advice to post a link to that request in this thread.

I truly enjoy working with Lightroom, and it has been impressive to follow how the Lightroom has evolved into such a comprehensive and highly capable tool over the years. This is exactly why the recent change in the behavior of the Remove Tool stands out to me. For that reason, I have to make a feature request for an expert mode for the Remove Tool, as this would help maintain the level of precision and control that experienced users rely on.

[krakozavr@gmail.com]

Lightroom is PROFESSIONAL tools. It mean, if someone don't know how to use it properly, this person must learn how to master the tool - or switch to a consumer software.

But Adobe want keep everyone - as a result, trying to please lazy uneducated newbies, they broke the great powerful tool for everybody,  hit advanced users, and didn't fix the issue for practically half of year. And yet, they still announce ney toys targeting inexperienced users at first. Introduced new funny things at MAX over the unfixed broken tools.

I see lack of understanding from Adobe side. If they are playing this game to keep new users from switching to consumer spps, the EXISTING PROFESDIONALS will switch to another professional apps. Doesn't matter how many new funny tools Adobe will include, it doesn't matter if these tools are unreliable. If I can't use some tool, I can use other software without this tool, plain and simple 

[Jonathan_Seattle]

Easy fix to satisfy both user groups would be an Expert mode toggle.

[James22924775n061]

Any updates on this?
Even after this update, I'm still seeing issues with the edits outside the masked areas. 

Can't really see any diffrence between versions. 

[Jonathan_Seattle]

Thanks James. You're on the latest version? I'll wait to update until I hear it actually works.

~ Jonathan

[Nico Kobel]

@Rikk Flohr: Photography I have to agree with anyone else in here that the mentioned update did not change anything. The issue is still there and definitely not fixed yet! Why is it marked as resolved?

[Thomas Steen Petersen]

@Nico Kobel @Rikk Flohr: Photography @krishna.singh 
Hi Nico
I’m very disappointed with Adobe. I’ve made them aware that the issue is still not resolved, yet they now seem to be ignoring posts in this thread. At the very least, Adobe should let users know whether this behavior is by design and something we have to live with, or whether they are willing to look into this ongoing issue.

[krakozavr@gmail.com]

If I would send you my screenshots each time it doesn't work, I will have no time to work at all. long story short: this problem is not addressed.