I'm sorry. Why is the issue marked as "solved"? I have spent MONTHs getting to grips with Lightroom and finally, I'm producing images that I'm happy with. I decide to export an image for some online feedback - and guess what? No sharpening or clarity local adjustments are translated into the export. No noise reduction is translated into the export. Essentially my work is lost on export.
I'm more than just a little annoyed. Lots of money and MONTHS of work, yet wholly unable export images and have them represented as presented in Lightroom?
I can find two versions of the current status:
1) Live with it, just export full size and use another tool to resize.
- Really? That's the "solution"?
- This means a loss of quality as sharpening is non-proportional.
- This means a loss of quality as noise reduction is all but "lost" as external tools are sharpening on the resize.
- How can it be that a major product developer - ONE YEAR after a bug has been identified - is happy to simply tell users "this product is the industry standard for RAW development, but your work is lost on export."
2) "Resolved"
- I'm using CC, so I'm always "up-to-date", as of this morning, this is NOT resolved.
Adobe thinks they've solved this particular problem, and for many of us - they have.
Begging the question - is it the same problem, or a similar but different one.
Have you found that exports (even a tiny bit) above 1/3 have noise reduction and/or sharpening applied, whereas those (even a tiny bit) below 1/3 size do not? If so, then it is the same problem, otherwise not.
If it's the same problem, then consider stating your operating system here, and the version of Lightroom (the part after the dot too).
If it's a similar but different problem, consider a new thread - it seems to me lots of Mac users are complaining of similar problem, but maybe Windows users are too - dunno.
I've just tried it out. Definitely the same problem. Less than 1/3, no sharpening, no local clarity adjustments, no noise reduction. Full size export, adjustments applied but "lost" when re-sizing in external applications (ie. sharpness is lost during the resize process).
Aaaaaaah! Lightroom 5.3!
Well, try Lightroom 5.4, this is what the Lightroom 5.4 change log says:
"Sharpening/Noise Reduction were applied inconsistently depending on crop and export image size."
Or wait, in less than 6 hours Adobe will announce "some" new software.
OK. Updated to 5.4. Exported with 800px short edge. Same problem. No improvement at all.
Here's another side by side:
Note sharpening problem easily by paying attention to the tree in the far background, and the lead subject's hair. Not that noise reduction is lost completely.
For now, the result remains: not solved
To those of you that are trying to help me - thank you - I appreciate it sincerely. However, Lightroom 5.4 with Camera Raw 8.5 is still exporting without the adjustment.
Wow, that's really strange. Things look like a little sharper, but not better. Look at those jagged edges, those lines..
I would love to test it for you here too. Can you please upload the RAW file, or send it (WeTransfer) to info@hansvaneijsden.nl so I can experiment with it?
Ah and by the way, (I hope we're seeing the images at 100% in your screenshots): the image on the right, is that an export of an older Lightroom version? Or a different program?
The side by sides, are literally simply a screen shot of the export (.jpg - on the left) next to the Lightroom window in develop mode (right).
Oddly enough; I've just discovered that a full 100% scale .jpg export also has the same problem. If I "edit in Photoshop" and throw it across from light room, it also has the same problem.
The problem being, what I'm seeing in Lightroom (right) is not what I'm getting in export (left).
In other words; the image on the right is what I want to get exported.
Another interesting point. I just realised that in "Develop", I get the sharpened and noise reduced image. But, in "library" - the image is flat an dull just like the export.
Here I see the same thing. Although your screenshot taken from the Develop looks better (less noise, sharper), it's an error in Lightroom: Lightroom displays images in Develop with too much noise correction while watching them zoomed out. The Develop module is only accurate while watching at 1:1, 100% zoomed in. The Library module is more accurate.
I always zoom in to 1:1, do the noise reduction and sharpening, and then export. When I export to 1024 or lower (longest side), I put the output sharpening (in the Export module!) to Screen High. When I'm exporting to 2048, I put it on Screen, Standard. When I'm exporting to full size, I turn it off.
Thanks for that. I've just been playing with those settings and see what you mean. I can get the "sharpness" overall to be the more or less the same on export, but you're right. The noise reduction is miles away.
I'll just need to remember that in lightroom - what you see is not what you get. I guess a slight overshoot on the noise reduction would do the trick.
Thanks to both you and Rob for your help (@rob: I got much closer through following your extensive effort in other threads).
No mention about sharpening / NR in 5.5 release notes. So do we just chalk this up to user experience, or do some folks still think there is a software problem?
I would call it less a "Bug" and more a "design flaw" at this stage.
The side by side above shows that, using a work around of bumping the NR and sharpening before export, resulted in an export similar to that on screen.
The key is the language here: "Develop Module". I would expect at WYSIWYG interface here. To say that what is seen in "Develop Module" is not, in fact, the status of development due to resizing is nonsense. If an over calculation is being applied to the "preview", then simply apply the same calculation as the export. If the "Fit" size view (or any resized view) is n pixels in size, then an export should mirror it. Otherwise; local adjustments are meaningless.
I suspect the bug of failure to apply the NR and Sharpening is fixed (as the above images show). However, the design flaw is glaring. I'm guessing that the "Industry Standard" status of the product suite now leaves us, as consumers, in the usual state: "If you don't like it, don't use it".
I would prefer to see development effort going into "WYSIWYG Editing and Viewing" rather than "new features".
Sincerely though; through a combination of your explanations and Hans guidance, I was at least able to understand WHY I was getting poor export results. The workaround get's you close.
It simply means however, that Lightroom is absolutely NOT the tool for fine art photography. Since, the "finer" elements are at best challenging to reproduce on export.
Shame.
All the best gentlemen, and thank you for your help!
To be honest Rob. The point is closed or at best moot. Sharpening at standard on export is indeed similar to what's being seen. Similar is not same. Due to the naming of the "develop" module, one would expect to see that "developed" image prior to export - not one that is "similar".
Additionally, that covers only "sharpen". The fact that NR is off by an average of 15-20 points is certainly nonsense.
The combined effect of NR being "way off" and sharpening being "similar" results in a game of "multiple exports with tweaking of the NR slider along with changes to the export sharpening value" that could be avoided with a preview algorithm aligned to export settings.
For now, I'm resigned to "doing the export tweak dance" on the assumption that it's a behaviour of the application that unlikely to be refined in the interest of user experience and a streamlined workflow.
Fair enough Shane. I dunno why there are differences in sharpening in develop module versus export/standard. I mean, I could guess, but it'd just be guessing.
Regarding noise reduction - I've never noticed a difference before, but I'll keep a look out - is problem color, luminance, or both? - I assume we are talking about develop module at fit view, right? I've previously only evaluated at 1:1.
We are indeed talking about a fit view. Or, something resembling export size (so, generally a screen view image.
Concerning NR. It's the "volume" of NR applied. Typically, the "volume" effect (main slider value) of NR is around 10-20 points less (depending on image size) at export that seen in the "preview" in Develop Module.
In other words;
Problem:
If one exports an image of a size equal to that of the image as viewed in "Fit" or any other mode (excluding 1:1), then one can expect that the Sharpness on export is similar but not same, at the that NR volume applied is 10-20 points less than shown in the preview.
Workflow Solution:
Get a fell for the correct level of sharpness to apply and expect similar but never the same as previewed, and lift the NR volume by 10-15 points before export. Based on a quick comparison of export and preview, make a final NR tweak (intuitive but usually good enough) and then export again. Overall result will be very similar - but not the same - as previewed.
Conclusion:
My point regarding fine art elements, suggested that "if I can't see the results as I apply adjustments, and the 'fine tuning' is not the same on export, then the 'fine art' exported is different to the 'fine art' produced during adjustment. Light room is great for very, very good. But, not great for images where the 'fine subtleties' are an important element of the final export.
I realise, of course, that viewing the same image on 500 screens, is tantamount to reviewing 500 different images. So, again, the point becomes moot. Except when on considers an avoidable "tweak dance" on export. 😉
So, luminance, not color NR - right? color noise reduction is about the same??
I'm trying to see the difference in lum.NR, but so far they look the same to me - I'll run some more tests though..
Perhaps another reason I never noticed it is I rarely apply much more than 10-15 points total - I guess you gotta be crankin' it up pretty high to identify a 10-15/20 point swing.
Regardless, I get your point - reduced size exports for screen not looking same as fit-view in Lr is a problem. You are exporting at same dimensions as displayed in Lightroom, then viewing those at 1:1 for comparison, I hope.
In case you've not yet considered: when you are exporting a 4000 pixel photo at 800 pixels, you are condensing 25 pixels into 1 - the effect of lum. NR at such reductions is ~0 (same goes for develop module sharpening). What are the sizes of your originals vs. export size?
All of these points are indeed considered, hence the desired result being achieved some time back. On cranking the NR, can be a desired effect (as for the previous image) - but is certainly not typically the case.
As for orginal size; I shoot and work in RAW (actually .DNG).
This is a size aspect ratio problem with the user of the software etc.----if your using the "5inches by 11 inches" print format, then you need to size your image in the image sizing format in photoshop first, then bring the image in light room --if your image is bigger than the 5 by 11 format--then the reduce noise features will be changed by the software and your reduce noise is changed etc.
This is a size aspect ratio problem with the user of the software etc.----if your using the "5inches by 11 inches" print format, then you need to size your image in the image sizing format in photoshop first, then bring the image in light room --if your image is bigger than the 5 by 11 format--then the reduce noise features will be changed by the software and your reduce noise is changed etc.
Im glad I came accross this topic as its been plaguing me for some time and I assumed it was something im doing. Its one of the main reasons ive moved to another editing program as the time saved by my workflow in lightroom is more than lost due to the tweaks required after exporting. I primarily shoot weddings and a lot of images are at high ISO and I need accuracy in what im seeing. The program I use now gives me an export that identically matches what I see during the edit which has removed all the guesswork I was experiencing with lightroom.
As for resizing in another program prior to lightroom editing, that just negates the efficiency of lightroom altogether.
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