P: Poor photo in the library and develop module - smart previews

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have a problem with version 10.0,
the photo is of poor quality in the library and in the develop module. I use smart previews (the disk with the original photos is disconnected).
smart previews in version 10.0 have poorer quality than in version 9.4
When I install the older version (9.4), the same photo with the same preset is of better quality (also smart previews).

It looks like there is a higher grain in the photo
Here are photos exported from smart previews.

Tested on: Mac pro 2013 (6core, 16gb ram, D500)

Macbook Pro 2014 2,7 ghz 4 core, 16gb ram

10.0:

Ver.10.0-b0348375-7ee4-43f6-bacf-3bf7316fa4d7-546901345.jpg

9.4:

Ver9.4-bc03ff63-1ef6-43e0-9ea4-dd2806a97943-358141873.jpg

Photo exported after attaching a disk with the original photo:

568_DSA7405-959a0e03-16c7-429b-8073-0ddca9b69679-298407583.jpg

[TheDigitalDog]

What the other thread solved was the fact this is an issue that doesn't affect everyone (perhaps most) and the OP never reported back what he saw in ACR which would be a useful test. 

I did see, for a split second, the poor preview from his DNG, then it updated and completely disappeared on this end, never came back. 

Why did the poor preview show up in the first place? No idea. Why his previews don't update correctly? No idea. 

[Todd Shaner]

To see the full size image on Windows I right-click and select 'View Image.' You can then download the file or click the + icon to Zoom 100%. Here it is at 200% Zoom to better see the noise artifacts.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I reset the ACR. I deleted smart previews and recreated them. Nothing helped.

Once, the photo in the library was high quality (Without a disk attached to the original photo). In the develop module it was again of poor quality.

Now I always and everywhere have it of poor quality.

When I connect the disc, everything is the same. When you zoom in on a photo, a higher quality version will load. Like here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlQr8L6-qSU&feature=youtu.be

[TheDigitalDog]

I watched your video, this is exactly what I saw with the other OP's DNG, MacOS, LR10. But after zooming in, the 'poor' preview never came back. Is that what you see too? IOW, after you zoom in and the preview is reconstructed, does it stay that way? Again, on this end, it disappears and never reappears. 

In terms of ACR, I wasn't talking about resetting it unless you mean cleaning out the ACR cache which was recommended but didn't work for my OP in the other post. What I was wondering is if you open such a raw for the first time in ACR, do you see that poor preview at any time? I never did with the DNG sent. And it would be useful for you too to supply a DNG with all the edits, profile etc embedded in it, exported from LR, that way it's easier to download and test. You might consider doing an update metadata and preview command before exporting. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Here is DNG file https://mab.to/oF4PB4xgJ

But... when i use my HDD external drive with original photos, this previews after zoom is better. But it is necessary to zoom in...

This is not my favourite workflow.

I normally work like this: I have a disconnected HDD with photos. After zooming in, LR works as in the video (photo does not improve after zooming in)

Zooming without original photos (just smart previews)

https://mab.to/6rYuJOnzs

Zooming with original photos....

here you see the difference Before and after. 00:01 is worse. 00:04 has already loaded a higher quality photo (thanks to the attached disk with original photos)

https://mab.to/ynz8vbiBA

[TheDigitalDog]

Here is DNG file https://mab.to/oF4PB4xgJ

When I download and import into LR10, on Mac OS (Catalina), the preview I see in Develop matches nearly identically, the preview I see in Library at both Fit and Zoom. I do not see the noise/ugly preview reported. 

This is a bit different from the other forum post where the OP's DNG did show an issue that disappeared after zooming in and never returned. 

Something is going on with some users. Seems different on Windows than Mac in that the odd previews show than disappear at least on one Windows users machine but not on yours from Mac. 

We need more people with differing OSs and hardware to download your DNG (and the other Windows DNG) and report what they are seeing in terms of the preview. These are the kinds of data we need for Adobe:

1. Do you see the odd preview, yes or no on your own system? 

2. Do  you see the odd preview on the downloaded DNGs?

3. If you do does it disappear after a 1:1 zoom?

4. Does it reappear or disappear from this point on?

5. What OS, what GPU? 

6. What camera, what DCP profile assigned, what PV version? 

7. If you have an older version of LR, does this issue appear and what version of LR are you using? 

There are probably a lot more questions that need to be asked or answered. This is an isolated issue, but what's the cause???

Edit: IMPORTANT question: Does this only occur IF you apply Noise/Grain in Develop? 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I did DNG using the original photo. you can try

https://mab.to/btQbYpCvr

[Todd Shaner]

I downloaded the https://mab.to/oF4PB4xgJ DNG file exported with the original photo not connected and the Library and Develop previews look identical. Please export to DNG file format with the original photo connected and your settings applied and upload for sharing. This will allow us to create a Smart Preview from the original photo, which may exhibit the issue.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

...from original photo https://mab.to/btQbYpCvr

[kimballisms]

For me the bigger concern wasn't the preview quality while viewing the photo in Lightroom, but rather the fact that an exported image was of lower quality in 10.0 vs 9.4's export.

Fotimelasku, is that still the case?

[TheDigitalDog]

...from original photo https://mab.to/btQbYpCvr

And that's slightly different than the first. 

After import, POOR appearing preview in Develop. Zoom in, it disappears. It matches Library. Just like the other DNG from the other forum post from Windows. If I quit LR, start up in Develop, I see the 'poor' preview for a split second, then it disappears. 

IF I open the DNG in ACR 13, zoom in, I never see the poor preview, it updates correctly. DO try that too and report back. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

BrianKimball

The preview is the same in the library, develop module and after export.

andrew_rodney

How did you do that? how do I open a photo in ACR? Can you make a video of what you did?

[TheDigitalDog]

With the Boxer DNG image, which at least in the Mac Finder shows it's a larger file, in ACR, I do see the poor preview for a split second. 

So the question perhaps for Adobe is, what initially is used for the preview before the ACR cache updates a higher quality preview in Develop or ACR, could it be very low rez or 'corrupted', thus for some users, it shows a poor quality. 

On my end, I do not see this poor quality preview at any time. 

Could this be associated with edits using Effect (Grain?). Both DNGs have such edits among others. I've tried some differing and radical Gain settings and again, I cannot get the previews to show incorrectly. 

[martinh25301180]

I cannot answer your question on the other thread, beacuse i don't find the thread. It seems it will be deleted. But i can say, using ACR changes nothing. Next times opening LR, the preview in library was bad also.

[TheDigitalDog]

How did you do that? how do I open a photo in ACR?

I drag and drop over Photoshop, it opens in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw). Or just use File Open. 

[TheDigitalDog]

I cannot answer your question on the other thread, beacuse i don't find the thread. 

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-image-previews-with...

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

you're right ... ACR is a module for PS, I forgot.

I tried it. The photo in ACR is of poor quality, it loads after 1 second and is high quality. This is how I would expect it in LR, but it is not so.

[TheDigitalDog]

The photo in ACR is of poor quality, it loads after 1 second and is high quality. This is how I would expect it in LR, but it is not so.

Exactly, so why? This is how we can drill down data for Adobe to fix this for those (and why only those) who see this. 

[martinh25301180]

I can say, using ACR changes nothing. Next times opening LR, the preview in library was bad also.

[TheDigitalDog]

Next times opening LR, the preview in library was bad also.

But on this end, it updates correctly and depending on the size of the raw, nearly instantly. You see that behavior (update) or not? 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

@Pavan_kumar 

@Rikk

could you please check?

[Melodic_wisdomB836]

Just to pop back here (I left because predictably, as always seems to happen when people ask for advice online it turned into a slanging match)

I'm running the new Lightroom on an iMac (I don't know why some people have written that I've tried on both, I haven't and my issue is on Mac not on Windows)

The problem still persists.

There's a lot of overcomplicating going on in here. The simple problem is that when you look at an image applied with grain added it looks awful and no where near true to what it'll look like on export until you zoom in. When you navigate away from that photo and come back to it again the photo again looks terrible. 

I've tried changing the preview types, sizes etc. Same problem persists regardless of changes.

[Todd Shaner]

"So the question perhaps for Adobe is, what initially is used for the preview before the ACR cache updates a higher quality preview in Develop or ACR, could it be very low rez or 'corrupted', thus for some users, it shows a poor quality. "

Once I was able to duplicate the issue I found a Smart Preview anomaly.

1) With the original raw file connected build a Smart Preview and Zoom to 100% view in both Library and Develop modules. Make sure you allow time for the preview build to complete in each module.

2) Set Zoom back to Fit view and switch to the Develop module.

3) Take the original file offline by changing its name to _DSB0864.dng.HOLD.

4) In the Develop module apply any setting change such as a change in the Basic panel.

5) Switch back to the Library module and Zoom to 100%. Observe the 100% preview is now smaller and matches the Smart Preview image size.

6) Switch back to the Develop module and Zoom to 100%. Observe the preview size is the same as the full-size original file and it remains the same size when applying edits in the Develop module.

Apparently the camera raw cache is not being updated and one would expect the image quality to be poor since the original file is missing, but that's not the case on my Windows 10 system. I tested the above workflow steps using LrC 9.4 and it exhibits the same behavior. Next I checked the much older LR 5.7.1 and it behaves as expected with the Develop module 100% (1to1) preview the same size as the Smart Preview when the original raw file is taken offline.

Not sure what to make of this, but clearly something has changed in the camera raw cache behavior.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

This happened to me, so you're not alone. Fixed it by reverting back to the previous version of Lightroom (9.4). Not the best fix but hey it's worked and I am a professional photographer too so I know what it's like to be editing millions of images 🙂 

[Melodic_wisdomB836]

*shmeckles Hey, I didn't even know you could do this. Is it easy to roll it back? I definitely want to do this until the issue is fixed. Thanks!