P: Slow UI when using Mac and Custom Display Profile

[adamcrowe]

Hello,

Since upgrading to Lightroom Classic v10.0, all UI-related functionality is painfully slow. All editing functions are working correctly and quickly but scrolling through the catalogue or even scrolling a side panel is taking many long seconds to refresh. Unreasonably long.

Disabling GPU Accellaration has no affect on my Lightroom's performance.

macOS Mojave 10.14.6

Mac Pro (Late 2013)

3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5

32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3

AMD FirePro D700 6 GB

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I was aware, because I subscribe to this forum. So remember to subscribe here, and check these emails so that you can see if there are issues before you jump into the next version.

[MCHM]

Bill_3305731

This discussion of Apple vs. Microsoft reminds me of MaCoys vs. Hatfields or Canon vs. Nikon. Everyone has their own preferences and there is no need for pushing one doctrine agains other.  It is not the machine problem it is the Adobe Software problem. Adobe software does not release the memory allocated to it, therefore, once the RAM memory runs out of resources it will quit. The engineers at Adobe need to fix this before the software will properly work on any machine.

[COBill]

This is more likely to be an Apple problem that was partially fixed with macOS 11.2, completely solved for our iMac. Another macOS update was just released, supposedly fixed some security problems but probably some other fixes as well.

This blame game by Apple users that all apparent Lightroom bugs are caused by Adobe software is getting silly. Since the memory management code is probably identical for both the Mac and Windows versions of Lightroom and because this problem doesn't occur on Windows, it is most likely a macOS bug. 

My recommendation to the OP to switch to Windows was to keep from going out of business. The OP seems to be in dire straights and in desperate need of a solution. So he can make a switch and stay in business or be unemployed for an indeterminate amount of time while waiting for a fix. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

That's ridiculous. I've been using the same stable, reliable Mojave release for years now. The problem started after the Adobe LRC 10 update... and the problem exists across a variety of MAX OS versions. It wasn't a problem in LRC 9. 

Moreover, Adobe KNEW about this problem and did not send ANY notice to ANYONE about it. They let people like me download it long after the problems were known, and convert massive catalogs that couldn't be switched back, and NO NOTICE of the UTTER HELL we were entering into. 

It's grounds for a class action lawsuit. I have real damages. 

I've only come to figure out the RAM issue and the custom monitor profile issue and the GPU acceleration issue by happening upon the right discussions. NO HELP, NO NOTICE, NO FOREWARNING, NO ACKNOWLEDGMENT FROM ADOBE. Total malfeasance on their part. 

And yet you think the entirety of this is 'a result of a problem on Apple's end'. WOW. Are you paying ANY attention to ANY of this? <facepalm>

[TheDigitalDog]

It's grounds for a class action lawsuit.

Read the EULA; not a chance. 

[COBill]

You are wasting your time Andrew, he wants to suffer. You can't help people like that. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

You shouldn't have to subscribe to a forum to know whether the company you're paying is about to risk your livelihood without even telling you. Especially when they've known about the problems for months on end. Imagine if were were expected to be on car forums to know whether our tires were going to explode or our brakes were about to fail! NO, the onus is on the provider of a product or service to communicate when they cannot fulfill their end of the bargain. 

[TheDigitalDog]

He has a right to complain. 

The bit about a class action? That failed after he and others agreed that can't happen. 

[TheDigitalDog]

Especially when they've known about the problems for months on end.

Nope. Not accurate and an assumption.

And no one forces you to update, not keep the backed up older catalog, not test before rushing ahead etc. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

The point was nothing short of a massive lawsuit, or something more unspeakable, seems likely to getting their attention. They do not care. Not even a little bit, as evidenced by their complete failure to warn anyone, or provide guidance on workarounds or a timeline for a solution. 

As for the suggestion that moving my entire production and 50TB worth of data and all my other software (video, music libraries, email, etc etc) over to a PC environement, and then learning how to operate in that environment after a 15 year hiatus, with no tech support... it would take a month, minimum to get back on track. It is the single most painful choice one could make when already behind. It's basically choosing to tear down an otherwise good house instead of fixing the plumbing. 

Since I have schooled myself on the details of Adobe's 'malware', it is a less expensive, more productive path for now to keep rebooting the software to avoid crashes from Adobe's inability to manage RAM use and live without GPU acceleration and buy a new monitor with hardware calibration built in. Once caught up, it would be much, much faster to migrate to Capture One, which works faster and produces better RAW conversions than move all that data to a new $$$ PC setup... only to hope Adobe doesn't make a mess of that environment at that point. All while sending away tens of thousands of dollars in work from longstanding clients while simultaneously fending off their daily inquiries on existing projects. It's the worst possible choice. 

Adobe's handling of this problem that they have directly created has been utterly reprehensible. Full stop. 

[TheDigitalDog]

The point was nothing short of a massive lawsuit, or something more unspeakable, seems likely to getting their attention

Please stop, this is absurd. Please read the agreement you made with Adobe that spells this all out. Try schooling yourself on the legal agreement YOU made when you agreed to use the product. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I wouldn't define 'waiting two months until the first update is released' as "rushing ahead". 

They knew or should have known of these problems in beta testing, and from what I've finally found on the internet, the very serious and basic problems involving using GPU acceleration, custom monitor profiles being incompatible with PS and LRC, and gorging itself on RAM until it crashes the whole system were in fact known to them. 

It was also known to them that once you update the catalog to LRC 10, you cannot easily return to the functioning version 9 of the program. 

It was also known to them that users were downloading and installing the program update without knowing any of these things, and they sat there in their pee pants not saying a word, sending people blindly into a wholly intractible, and practically irreversible downward spiral. 

They knew, and they said nothing. Much like Boeing knew about the problems with the 737 MAX, Ford knew about the problems with the Pinto, the Explorer, etc. 

It is NEVER the job of the customer to extensively beta test software they are paying for. The software industry has been getting away with these things for a long time, and the number of issues with this release are way beyond 'reasonable'. They rushed the release to coincide with their annual Adobe festival, and were too irresponsible to even warn people of their failure. 

It's inexcusable. 

It would be one thing to have bugs with the new M1 chips and Big Sur, where it's all very new, but the litany of failings with this release are happening on a wide array of operating systems and Mac computers. It is not limited to 'new discoveries with a new OS or new M1 hardware. 

They should have, at an absolute minimum, warned their customers of the peril they were headed for. Period. 

[TheDigitalDog]

They knew or should have known of these problems in beta testing,

Again, no.

Take it from an actual beta tester.

Period.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

It's seriously incredible that people are sitting here telling me that people should never trust a company to provide the goods or services they are contractually agreeing to provide, instead citing 'you agreed that you can't sue them in the EULA', and thinking that people are essentially paying a monthly subscription to play software-russian-roullette. You people apparently to not understand the basic tenets of a contractual obligation, much less the common decency that should - by any reasonable standards - demand that people be given a meaningful warning about any one of the multiple known deficiencies and subsequent workarounds or even a timeline for a fix. 

Adobe is run by people with participation trophies on their desks. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

You are being absurd. 

Adobe has a contractual obligation to deliver the product I am paying for. It's a basic principle of contract law, summed up as "getting the benefit of your bargain". 

THEY agreed to deliver a working product. THEY failed their contractual obligation, bigly.

They also did not, and still have not given users ANY reasonable warning of defects that they (a) know about, which we *know* because they say they are (b) trying to fix the problems. ZERO help, ZERO warning, ZERO communication about a timeline for a solution, and almost ZERO meaningful communication about how to work around the problems (you have to exhaustively search just the right terms, like I had to, and then you *start* to find the bread crumbs)

They should be refunding subscription payments until a fix is effected. They should warn people not to install the software if the known defects might cause a problem for the client. PERIOD.

Instead, all the managers at Adobe are sitting at their desks polishing their participation trophies while talking about their golf handicaps, instead of warning hard-working customers about their software handicaps.  

This whole situation is absolutely outrageous. There should not be this many very basic problems, and since there are, there should be communication from the company who entered into the contract agreement with ME, to prevent further damage to ME, but there has been NONE. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Turns out I AM an ACTUAL "beta tester". SIX MONTHS after the software was released, and at least 5 months from what I've now seen on the internet, the problems have been known. They STILL are not warning anyone of the potential problems at the point of choosing to download. 

Beyond their duty to provide a working product, they have a duty to warn people of the harm their software may do once they know of the problem. The fact that they STILL do not have a solution, and are not communicating AT ALL about the problem is total corporate malfeasance. 

"Gotcha with my EULA, sucker" is not a good look, ever. They are earning every drop of vitriole they get.  

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I simply cannot believe the level of unaccountability I'm seeing from people on this forum. 

Let's pretend your Uber driver picks you up, and the next thing you know you're in an out of control vehicle, that eventually crashes half way to your big business meeting.

After the crash, you get into another Uber, and the driver tells you:

"Your last Uber driver was having problems with the brakes on his car all day. He didn't know it when he left the house, but if you would have read his recent reviews you would have seen that other customers nearly died making it to their destinations. You should have looked that up before you got in his car. Sorry you missed your meeting and lost a $50k contract, hope you at least have medical insurance. You really should have your own mechanic look at these cars before you get in. The EULA says you can't sue. You should really know better."

THAT is exactly what I'm hearing from people on here. The lack of accountability is just mind-boggling. 

[TheDigitalDog]

Oh of course what was I thinking: Adobe and their software team deliberately produce bugs to upset you. 

Do your duty: Pull out your checkbook and call your lawyers.

Oh, and they do have a solution.
Wait for it....wait for it.....

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Updates to Lightroom Classic and the Lightroom Ecosystem products for Desktop, Mobile and Web were released today and contain a fix for this issue.

Please refresh your Creative Cloud application and install your update when it becomes available. Thank you for your patience.

[hursey]

Hallelujah.. That was a painful journey! (The thread..more so than the actual issue)...Thanks Rikk!!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Tremendously relieved to see this update! My app just updated. Overall much better, but still a bit choppy when in full 6K on the PD XDR, and the thumbnails are set to a larger size. This is on a Mac Pro 2019 with W5700X with 16GB of   GPU RAM and 80GB of system RAM

Additionally seeing scroll lag on the sidebar of the develop module. 

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

More performance work is in the plans for this type of behavior...

[COBill]

*timerickson

You pose an interesting GPU question. Do cards for photo editing need dramatically more RAM?

On a 4K or 5K monitor with cards with differing amounts of RAM, the RAM utilization always goes to 100% while GPU utilization never exceeds 35%.

I can't afford a 16GB card but am very curious what level of utilization you are experiencing in the develop module with your card.

Thanks 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I'm running macOS Catalina, so my experience is relative to that.  macOS has  compression and a few other tricks to manage system RAM. It's not often that I use the full 80GB I have.  GPU RAM is a different story. macOS seems to like to use as much of it as possible, nearly all the time. This generally isn't an issue, as the common wisdom is: if you have it, use it. But it is surprising at first. For example, I have one image open in Photoshop, no layers, and the GPU RAM is maxed, but the GPU processing is at near 0%.  This is often the case where the GPU isn't being taxed, but the RAM is filled. macOS doesn't give me any way to see which apps are using GPU RAM and for what, so I don't have much insight into why. 

To answer the thrust of your question, I see the same thing. I can't get it to need more than ~30% of the GPU processing power in the develop module no matter what action I take. 

Tangentially related, I'm still experiencing god awful scroll and zoom performance in Photoshop on the PD XDR with my Mac Pro. I need to report this to the Photoshop team somehow

[COBill]

Thanks for the info, I guess I won't mortgage the farm for a higher performance video card just yet. Though Adobe's new high resolution tool and the absolutely fabulous noise reduction tool in DxO could change my mind. Well Adobe is supposedly depending heavily on the GPU and DxO on the CPU, perhaps a dual upgrade is in the cards. Still waiting on more details.