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P: Transform doesn't copy/sync correctly

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
February 20, 2020
38 replies
3568 views

Transform settings don't always copy/sync correctly to other photos. To reproduce:

1. Download this photo and make a copy of it in the same folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dflc03vke3be0zb/transform-bug.2020.02.19.jpg?dl=0

2. Import both photos.

3. Select both photos and go to Develop.

4. In the Transform panel, click Auto.

5. Click Sync, check only Upright Mode, then Synchronize.

6. Observe that the two photos have been transformed slightly differently.

7. Reset the develop settings of both photos.

8. Repeat steps 4 - 6, but this time check Upright Transforms in Sync.

9. Observe that the two photos have been transformed slightly differently.

See this thread for the original reports:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/transform-tool-problems-since-latest-update-in-ligh...

Tested in LR 9.2 / Mac OS 10.14.6.

This topic has been closed for replies.

M

Mikael Pettersson

Participant

Hi,

When I adjust transforms on a DNG file and use "synchronize settings" to copy the settings to multiple raw files it does not copy vertical and horisontal adjustments correctly (it flips them). Vertical adjustments are pasted as horisontal and horizontal are pasted as negative vertical adjustments.

If I have Guided turned on it works as it should.

OSX Sonoma 14.5

LR 13.4 (same problem with previous versions as well)

Camera raw 16.4

[moved from bugs to discussions according to the community rules - Mod.]

johnrellisAuthor

Legend

This is a longstanding bug, one of many copying adjustments between photos that have different internal orientations:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-correct-copying-of-crops-and-local-adjustments/idi-p/12428734

(A portrait raw from a camera could have internal orientation 90 degrees clockwise, while a TIFF resulting from editing that raw in Photoshop could have internal orientation 0 degrees, even though they appear identical.)

While Adobe fixed many of the most common instances of these bugs, there are many still outstanding, which Adobe hasn't even acknowledged as "bugs":

A workaround is to use the Copy Settings plugin.

johnrellisAuthor

Legend

Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, @Rick Spaulding -, please merge with this bug:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-transform-doesn-t-copy-sync-correctly/idi-p/12248826

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Patrick330189072io7

Participant

Thank you I will try the copy and paste setting technique.

johnrellisAuthor

Legend

@Patrick330189072io7, "Did you test this on vertical images? It is absolutly still an issue. On vertical images only. If you only apply manual changes works fine. The problem is when you apply a transform change in the slider bar. It reverses the values between images. It's a bug with vertical images and has been for many years now."

If you're replying to me, I agree that's still an issue. I posted the original report in this thread and retested it most recently four days ago:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-transform-doesn-t-copy-sync-correctly/idc-p/14338018#M50678

But note that the issue is not caused by portrait orientation per se, but rather by the source and destination photos having different internal orientation tags. For example, a portrait photo taken by a camera will typically be represented by a landscape array of pixels with an orientation tag of 90 or 270 degrees. But if you edit that photo in Photoshop and save it as a TIFF, the TIFF will be represented as a portrait array of pixels with an orientation tag of 0 degrees. It's the mismatch of orientation tag that confuses LR copying many develop settings, not just Transform.

A workaround is to use the Copy Settings plugin rather than the built-in Sync/Copy commands.

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Patrick330189072io7

Participant

Did you test this on vertical images? It is absolutly still an issue. On vertical images only. If you only apply manual changes works fine. The problem is when you apply a transform change in the slider bar. It reverses the values between images. It's a bug with vertical images and has been for many years now.

johnrellisAuthor

Legend

Correction: My Copy Settings plugin correctly copies Manual Transforms. (I must have been hallucinating when I tested it yesterday.)

D

David Lauer

Participant

Sounds like there are some other users with issues with copying/pasting transforms but this specific problem is related to HDR images and easy to recreate:

Make an HDR image within Lightroom from multiple exposures. Apply a transform to that HDR image. When copying that transform from the HDR image to one of the original single exposure images the Vertical and Horizontal values get switched and reversed. Example - if you put +5 in the Horizontal setting on the HDR image and copy that transform to one of the orginal (non-HDR) images the +5 setting turns into a -5 setting on the Vertical setting. Very strange behavior.. suprised if this has not been reported before but I see no reference to it. Has been an issue for several years.

johnrellisAuthor

Legend

Your problem isn't related to HDR per se -- it's another instance of a general problem that has always existed in LR, copying develop settings between photos with different internal orientations. While Adobe has fixed some of the specific instances, many are still not fixed and likely never will be:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-transform-doesn-t-copy-sync-correctly/idi-p/12248826

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-correct-copying-of-crops-and-local-adjustments/idi-p/12428734

Over the years, Adobe has given conflicting answers as to whether it considers this issue a bug or "as designed".

Likely in your example, the original exposures were in portrait mode out of the camera. Those photos are represented internally as a landscape array of pixels with an orientation tag of 90- or 270-degree rotation. The DNG produced by Photo Merge > HDR is represented internally as a portrait array of pixels with an orientation tag of 0 degrees rotation. LR continues to get horribly confused when copying various settings between photos that have different internal orientation tags.

The problem is easy to reproduce:

1. Take a landscape JPEG straight from the camera.

2. Do Photo > Rotate Right.

3. Export the photo as a JPEG and import it into the catalog.

4. Select both photos and do Photo > Rotate Left. The original photo has internal orientation "AB" and the exported photo "DA", but they appear visually identical.

5. On the original photo, set Transform > Vertical to +50.

6. Select both photos, with the original most-selected. Do Sync Settings with just Manual Transform selected. Observe that the two photos now look different, and that Transform > Vertical of the second photo is 0 and Transform > Horizontal is +50.

7. Reset both photos, and repeat steps 5 - 6 for Horizontal, Aspect, X Offset, and Y Offset. For each setting, the two images will look different.

There's also a similar bug with Rotate -- it doesn't copy correctly to mirrored orientations, e.g. from "AB" to "BA".

Sync Settings used to copy Transform > Vertical and Horizontal correctly. But I suspect in some version after LR 11.3, the Camera Raw team changed the internal API for copying settings, and LR wasn't changed accordingly.

My Copy Settings plugin used to copy the Manual Transforms correctly, but I think that same change in Camera Raw broke it. I will release version 1.25 in a day or so that again copies Manual Transforms correctly.

My Copy Settings plugin correctly copies Manual Transforms. (I must have been hallucinating when I tested it yesterday.)

johnrellisAuthor

Legend

Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge with this existing bug:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-transform-doesn-t-copy-sync-correctly/idi-p/12248826

P

Patrick330189072io7

Participant

I am using version 10.4 and this is still an issue with vertical images only for some reason.

P

Patrick330189072io7

Participant

The issue still persists with vertical images only.

H

Henning Klasén

Participant

I'd like to add that I'm seeing a behavior which I'm not sure has been mentioned in this thread (forgive me if I missed it).

I'm copying Crop and Transform settings from one Raw file and pasting them on a file that is an HDR of that same Raw file and an additional Raw file. The values for horizontal an vertical adjusted get "switched" and inverted. See screenshots.

Copy: