P: (Z9) Embedded previews are missing on a few images on large imports

[Jason Odell]

I have been doing bird photography and importing hundreds of images, and I rely on Embedded Previews for my intial triage/culling. I have ALL of the options for replacing embedded previews disabled (Idle time, etc).

Yesterday, I imported 1400 photos into my Lr 11.2 catalog, and Lr built Standard Previews for every file.

Sometimes, it leaves me a few Embedded Previews, but this is maddening. 

The Embedded Preview feature is ideal for those of us who need to triage quickly, including viewing images at 1:1.

Not sure if there's something I'm missing, or if this is a bug in Lr 11. 

[JohanElzenga]

Do you apply a preset on import? If so, Lightroom will build have to a preview to show the effect of that preset.

[Jason Odell]

I use updated defaults. However, this problem never happened with Lr10.x

I know Lr needs to build a preview to render presets/settings, but the whole point of Embedded Previews is to delay that operation until I go into the Develop Module. 

[richardplondon]

Embedded previews will often not permit viewing at 1:1. So it may be that zooming to 1:1 is what prompts Lightroom Classic to generate its own preview. 

One alternative workflow may be to cull images within the import screen - thus reduce the numbers which go into the Catalog (or ever reach the computer at all, if this is a Copy import from camera card). For those not imported, LrC will never expend any effort making previews etc.

You can use thumbnail or Loupe view in Import and this may be good enough for a first run through. Everything's extracted from the image file only. X or P to reject / accept, add Shift to step to the next image or else use arrow keys.

[Jason Odell]

I'm using Nikon cameras, which include a full-size preview. In the past, this was the main reason I did initial culling using Photo Mechanic; it renders the preview from the JPG embedded in my RAW files.

I appreciate the workarounds, but I'm beginning to think this is a bug. I sometimes see embedded previews, other times I don't. It's bizarre.

[Jim Wilde]

One other thing to check: Classic Preferences>General Tab, ensure that the option to "Replace embedded previews with Standard Previews during idle time" is NOT checked.

[john beardsworth]

I agree with your suspicion that it may be a bug, as I sometimes see similar cases copying from card with my Fuji raw+full size jpeg. If I notice quickly enough, I remove those missing the embedded previews (though it's often easier to remove all the images), and then reimport the photos from the hard drive.

[Jason Odell]

That's exactly how I'm set up.  

[Jason Odell]

I've done some testing this morning and I discovered that if I import <10 images, I get embedded previews as expected every time. If my import is 10 or more images, it is completely unpredictable.

Not that I plan on importing 9 images at a time... 

[Jason Odell]

Okay... I did a test import. I had 109 images.

If I only bring in 9 images at a time, I get embedded previews. I did this a few times in succession, and didn't have any issues.

I then proceeded to import the remaining 73 images in the batch.

The first 45 images had Embedded Previews, the remaining images did not; they got Standard Previews.

Guess I'll submit a bug report.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

If someone can replicate these results, this post will be converted into a Bug Report without your having to do it. So far, I haven't been able to replicate this. 

If you repeat your test import are the results identical?

[Jason Odell]

Hi Rikk-

I'm using Lr 11.2, MacOS 12.1 and importing NEFs from a Nikon Z9. 

I'll check out a few other things today. My normal import method is to "Add" photos that I've already copied to my computer using Photo Mechanic, but I've seen the same problem using direct card import from Lr.

Could it be a glitch with reading Z9 NEFs? It happens with both lossless NEF and High Efficiency NEF.

-Jason

[Jason Odell]

Follow-up:

I imported 82 images that I captured with my Nikon Z6 and did not have the problem.

I'm guessing then that this is somehow a glitch with reading large volumes of Nikon Z9 NEF files.

-Jason

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

We've not been able to replicate this so far. I don't have a Z9 handy, but I do have a Canon R5 which has pretty big files and I am not seeing it there. 

[Jason Odell]

I'm happy to send you some files, if you'd like. I don't see it in any of my previous Nikon cameras. Let me reach out to some colleagues with Z9s to see if they can replicate it, too.

[john beardsworth]

Rikk, I get it occasionally with Fuji XT-2 raw files (raw+full size jpeg) imported from the card. It seems linked to quantity, so I wouldn't expect it with <50 photos but if I import hundreds of photos I might have a few whose embedded previews fail to be built. Usually they're towards the end of the import.

[JonKandel]

I can replicate Jason’s issue. I have “Replace embedded previews with standard previews during idle time” unchecked and “Build Previews” is set to “ Embedded & Sidecar”. When I import approximately 100 images, when in Library view most of them indicate “Embedded Preview” — but randomly mixed in are images where Lightroom has built a preview. Sometimes it is a single image, sometimes several in a row — definitely a random distribution.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

So far, I've tested:

Mac 11.6.3

Win 10 

Canon 5DMKIV: Raw+JPEG in batches of 50 and 100 and cannot replicate the issue.  All images are badged as embedded previews and all previews are Camera Generated (I shoot Monochrome so I can instantly see an embedded vs LrC generated preview)

[Jason Odell]

Rikk-

I believe this bug/issue is unique to the Nikon Z9. See JonKandel's post above. He replicated the issue with Z9 NEFs.

None of my previous Nikon DSLR/Mirrorless cameras had this issue. I only started seeing it with the Z9.

-Jason 

[johnrellis]

[This post contains formatting and embedded images that don't appear in email. View the post in your Web browser.]

[Updated 12/9/22: Similar misbehavior occur swhen using Minimal instead of Embedded & Sidecar.]

Here's a precise recipe for reproducing the problem on LR 11.5 / Mac OS 12.4:

1. Download this sample Nikon Z 9 raw:

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/2427213861/nikon-z9-production-sample-gallery/4584690814

2. Place the file in a new folder and make 255 copies of it (in Finder or File Explorer, do select all, copy, paste 8 times).  

3. Disable the options Preferences > Replace Embedded Previews With Standard Previews During Idle Time and > Select The Current/Previous Import Collection During Import.  Enable the option Preferences > Performance > Generate Previews In Parallel.  Disable Address Lookup and Face Detection.

4. Import the folder from step 2, with the options Add and Build Previews: Embedded & Sidecar.

5. When the import completes and the progress bar "Fetching Initial Previews" completes, observe that many (most?) of the thumbnails don't show the embedded-previews badge (see below).

6. In Activity Monitor, observe the CPU usage of Lightroom Classic remains high for a minute or two. When it drops, scroll grid view by a whole pageful and observe that CPU usage again gets high.  When it drops, scroll again and observe CPU usage spike again.  This indicates that LR is generating standard-sized previews for the currently displayed thumbnails even though the option Replace Embedded Previews With Standard Previews During Idle Time is disabled.

7. Select a couple dozen of the thumbnails missing the embedded-previews badge and do Library > Previews > Build Standard-Sized Previews.  Observe the message, "No standard previews were built", demonstrating that this isn't just a UI problem in grid view -- the standard previews were indeed built by Import.

8. Repeat steps 1 - 7 but select Build Previews: Minimal instead. Observe similar incorrect symptoms, except that no preview badge appears at all.

[Jason Odell]

I can confirm that this problem persists in Lr 12.01.

I filed a bug report earlier this year.

[Jason Odell]

Issue: Embedded Previews not built when importing large numbers of Nikon Z9 NEFs

When I'm shooting large numbers of images (sports/wildlife), my preference is to use embedded previews during the initial image review phase via the Library Module, as it speeds up image review immensly. With all other Nikon Z cameras, Lr honors embedded previews for all images during import. Since I got the Z9, however Lr only creates embedded previews for the first 30-75 images imported; the rest get standard previews. This issue has persisted since Jan 2022 and continues with the current version of Lr. This issue occurs regardless of the compression settings of my NEFs (lossless, high efficiency). I have spoken with other Z9 users who have replicated this issue.

• Lightroom Classic Version Number: 12.0.1
• OS Version Number: Mac OS Ventural 13.0.1

Steps to reproduce:

1. Import > 50 NEF images (any compression format)
2. Choose "Embedded & Thumbnail" previews from the import dialog
3. Ensure that in Preferences: General: "Replace embedded previews with standard previews during idle time" is unchecked.

Expected result: All images show embedded previews after import

Actual result: The first 30-75 images get embedded previews, but the remaining images do not; they get standard previews instead.

I did a test import today of 109 Z9 NEF images; the first 74 were correctly given embedded previews while the remaining images did not.

[TheDigitalDog]

Is there a beta version of camera raw that will allow import of sony ar7 v images?

By @Jason Odell

No. 

See: https://community.adobe.com/t5/camera-raw-discussions/p-raw-file-support-requests-and-information-ne...

[johnrellis]

@Rikk Flohr: Photography, you wrote on 2/15/22, "If someone can replicate these results, this post will be converted into a Bug Report without your having to do it."

I provided a precise recipe on 8/31/22, including a sample Nikon Z 9 image:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-z9-embedded-previews-are-missing-on-a-few-im... 

I've retested several times in LR 12.0.1 / Mac OS 12.6.1 and get identical results. What happens when you try the recipe?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

@johnrellis  There is already a bug written for this but thanks for the additional information regarding 12.0.1!

[johnrellis]

"There is already a bug written for this but thanks for the additional information regarding 12.0.1!"

Thanks, when I saw Jason's post 6 hours ago, I thought it was still in Discussions.