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Lightroom 5 ICC profiles clipped shadows under OSX

Forum|Forum|12 years ago
December 27, 2013
14 commentaire
35237 vue

Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.

Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).

The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.

Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.

Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.

I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.

I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.

How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?

Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?

Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?

Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?

Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.

Max Ramuschi

Adobe Certified Expert

Ce sujet a été fermé aux réponses.

Meilleure réponse par Kelly Castro

Hi Folks,

We have up-leveled this issue, identified the source and we are currently testing a solution. We will provide more information as it becomes available.

Kelly C.

Lightroom QE

U

uduak5E56

Participant

Deliberate and effective use of shadows in your images can help to create a natural contrast and depth, convey drama and emotion, and provide you with powerful compositional elements in your photography. check out JAMB Portal

axmelissarios1

Legend

Hi folks,

I'm following up with the team to see what updates there are on this topic, if there are any.

Thanks,

Melissa

Melissa Rios, Product Manager, Community Experiences & Platforms | Adobe

H

HartWorx

Participating Frequently

This is a very good sign.

There are some issues especially with hardware calibrated display from my perspective.

Tethered shooting into an Eizo Hardware Calibrated System is impossible right now because the newest shot images are in library module and have clipped shadows. For most of my clients this is not acceptable and produces a lot of discussions.

From my perspective i really can't understand why these kind of workflows are not testes with state of the art workflows in professional environments.

I have been working with a lot with Color Management issues the last years and the only way to shoot tethered right now is working with Capture One. Bad for paying customers.

R

Richard Hade

Participating Frequently

Updated to 6.8 version of Lightroom and problem exists on very dark images:

STILL:
"When "Use Graphics Processor" switched ON: Develop is OK (same as Soft Proofing), Library is NOT

"Use Graphics Processor" switched OFF: Develop and Library are NOT and have clipped shadows

I would get over it (even with bug in Library, which still should not be present), but can't have to have "Use Graphics Processor" switched ON because of occasional flickering."

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

Richard,

can you answer my question above: "How are you calibrating your display?". Your symptoms are consistent with a bad monitor profile. Recalibrating it might help. If it doesn't, report your problem including screenshots to Photoshop Lightroom | Photoshop Family Customer Community. The forum here is mostly other users like me. The link is a place where lots of Adobe engineers look for reports of bugs and such.

What Mac do you have? What kind of GPU is in it? What kind of monitor?

H

HartWorx

Participating Frequently

It#s still the same bug with Eizo Monitors and Hardware Calibration. Clipped shadows in Photoshopy Liquify and so on.

-chrille-

Participant

Just curious, are the shadows clipped using older Mac OS like 10.7 and LUT based profile?

R

Richard Hade

Participating Frequently

macOS Sierra and still the same issue with clipping shadows in Lightroom... only way to work is to use Soft Proofing
Can anyone in Adobe do something with that? It's ridiculous and from client point of view it does not matter if it's Apple's or Adobe's fault. Would be really great if this two big companies work together to solve such problems which makes pros unable to work :/

D Fosse

Community Expert

Lightroom 4 and 5 both have a problem under Sierra, with black clipping and shadow banding. This has been reported in several threads here recently.

Lightroom 6 and CC work fine by all reports.

So if Sierra changed anything, Adobe picked up on it and everything is business as usual. Adobe has never updated legacy software versions for newer OS's, ever. Only current versions are updated.

-chrille-

Participant

Any news on the subject? Is it a Eizo, Mac or Adobe related issue?

I am having the same problem on Mac OS 10.8 and Lightroom 5.7. I have solved it using Matrix-based profile in Eizo ColorSync. Unfortunately my matrix based profile created for Eizo CS240 is less accurate then the LUT profile but let me see the shadow tones correctly.

Now I am interested in a new computer(Mac) and with that a new OS and wonder if it is still impossible to get correct shadow readings (RGB 0-20) in Lightroom 5 or 6?

Max_RamuschiAuteur

Known Participant

Hello everyone, I have an importand update for this thread: the issue described here affects only Eizo users, because Color Navigator (the only software that can manage Eizo Display's internal LUT) creates ICC profiles which need "black point compensation" to work properly. If the software color management engine can't apply the black point compensation, the shadows are bad rendered (clipped with no details). This is the reason why Victoria (who uses BasICColor) cannot reproduce the issue, and this is the reason why Photoshop (which can do "black point compensation") shows perfect shadows.

Today no OS can do this (OSX nor Windows), no internet browsers and probably neither Adobe Camera RAW 9.1 (with GPU on) nor Lightroom 2015.1 (with GPU on) can (the issue shows up in the latest version of ACR and LR ideed)

Is it possible to enable the "black point compensation" in Lightroom Develop Module? This is the only way to fix this issue for every Eizo user.

Thanks

D Fosse

Community Expert

Still seems Mac-specific. I have absolutely identical black levels between Lr/PS on a Win7 system, using an Eizo CG246 and ColorNavigator v6.

But all my current profiles are matrix, not LUT (mainly because Firefox has for a long time had problems with LUT profiles, known issue).

Max_RamuschiAuteur

Known Participant

Not really, I have the same issue in Windows 8.1. If you use a Matrix profile created by Color Navigator (called Gamma value) you can't check the option "reflect black level in tone curve"... this option is the problem: it allow CN to create a better profile (dE < 1 for all colors and gray tones) but it needs "black point compensation".

On Windows OS, ACR 9 and Lr CC 2015 probably use "black point compensation" but ACR 9.1 and Lr CC 2015.1 use it only when GPU support is turned off.

This is the perhaps the issue to fix.

Max_RamuschiAuteur

Known Participant

Ok guys I've just installed Yosemite and guess what? Nothing has changed. But times are getting even worse for photographers: if you use a Matrix profile Lr is bad while Bridge, ACR and Ps are ok, if you use a LUT profile (my Eizo CG pro display works way better with LUT profile) Lr is bad again, but even ACR shows bad shadows! With LUT profiles (which are the best ones) in ACR occurs the same issue of bad shadows rendering.

Now Adobe MUST do something.

Kelly CastroRéponse

Adobe Employee

Hi Folks,

We have up-leveled this issue, identified the source and we are currently testing a solution. We will provide more information as it becomes available.

Kelly C.

Lightroom QE

H

HartWorx

Participating Frequently

How about the solution?

Anything new?

N

nesys75

Participating Frequently

Maybe Chris Cox can escalate internally this.

Lightroom 5 ICC profiles clipped shadows under OSX

He is the official representative for this issue, and Adobe employee.

Please help me to push the right attention on that thread.

Thank you very much

N

nesys75

Participating Frequently

sorry, he is not Adobe employee. Just twitted to an Adobe employee, we'll see.

N

nesys75

Participating Frequently

Hi All,

I've also the same issue, Mavericks 10.9.5 / Lr 5.6.

Any chance to have Adobe more involved on this? I suspect the normal behavior doesn't include Library and Develop Modules with these differences in terms of shadows management. If it's matter of pointing to the right routines, I think this is something Adobe can fix without any support by Apple. Am I wrong?

Thank you

Andrea

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

Yes Adobe can fix this. Apple has fixed it for their own software mostly except for Safari which means that Adobe just needs to access the right routines so that the tone curve doesn't get dropped for sRGB toned data. Don't know who to ask anymore.

W

widphoto

Participant

I am seeing this black clipping issue on LR 5.3 under Mavericks 10.9.2. Prints made 6 months ago are now printing too dark in the blacks. Ironically, my current prints are looking more contrasty and more saturated than my monitor, an about face from normal, where the monitor used to have more contrast and saturation than the prints. What is the current solution? Which software is the most likely culprit? Thanks.

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

I haven't seen a problem with prints however the issue is likely a bug in Mavericks, not Lightroom. Aperture, Preview, Safari, etc. all have the same problem in color management. Lightroom only has the problem in Develop. Photoshop shows the deep blacks OK, because it doesn't use the operating system color management routines. We can only complain to Apple. They changed something with 10.9.3 that subtly changes the behavior, however it is still showing deep blacks wrong. I submitted a bug report however haven't gotten any feedback. I am hoping Adobe could have more clout but I have no clue whether they reported the nasty bug.

Max_RamuschiAuteur

Known Participant

Max_Ramuschi wrote:

Does Lightroom Pc version have an independent color management system unlike the Mac version one?

I believe that is the case. The way I understand it (not having a degree in computer science), is that in Mac OSX, color management is handed over to Apple's ColorSync. On Windows there is no equivalent to ColorSync, so it's done by the application using the Adobe Color Engine (sort of a separate module). I could be wrong, information about this is hard to find.

In Photoshop there is an added complication with the OpenGL engine, which in turn takes over display color management - unless Photoshop is set to operate in "Basic" mode.

Can Windows handle LUT ICC profiles?

As per above, Windows doesn't do any color management, it's all done by the application. All Windows does is make the profiles available for the application. This includes the "native" Windows apps - some are color managed, others not.

So it could well be that some applications don't handle LUT profiles. I have Eizo ColorNavigator set to make LUT profiles (in Windows 7), and haven't seen problems anywhere with that. I certainly don't see any black clipping (which I have specifically been looking for lately, for other unrelated reasons).

I started using Windows 8.1 two weeks ago, here is the sad truth (sad for Mac users obviously - me included):

- Yes Windows has its own Color Management System

- Yes It can handle LUT and Matrix Profile way better than OSX, Windows Preview is color managed and it shows perfect colors.

- Yes Lightroom works great: no shadows clipped, no differences* of colors and shadows between Library and Develop (on Windows platform OS Preview, Bridge, ACR, Lightroom, Photoshop show matching colors and shadows).

* the 90% of photos I checked were indistinguishable between Library and Develop. The 10% shows lighter shadows in Develop Module but the difference is really subtle (absolutely negligible).

Personally I don't like Windows OS for its long time characteristic (drivers conflict, reset, random program exits, out of memory messages etc - on Windows 8.1 all this happens less fequently indeed), so I hope Apple put a fix in Yosemite... If you are trying the beta version and have any news please write them here.

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