P:(Masking) Reduce number of clicks, KBSCs to perform certain actions

[Jop_Photo]

I hope Adobe is reading this 🙂

Since the update the masking tool takes one action too many (it sounds minor, but it prolongs the editing process unnecessary in my opinion).

Normally pressing M (or K or shift+M) would show all mask pins already used when hovering the photo with the cursor, just the way it still works using the spot remeval tool (Q). But now pressing M, it opens a new mask, without showing the old pins. Another 'action' is needed to see what masks are already on the photo.

I hope this gets changed soon.

Or am I missing something?

[PetriPuurunen]

After updating today (26th Oct 2021) the latest Lightroom Classic 11.0 I was very disappointed to some changes.  Toolbar under the rightside histogram looks quite empty. Reason is that some often used tools like radial and gradient tools are moved to under new menusystem thus creating some extra steps each time you want add selection.

Why?

Has even one photographer doing real workflow tested this change? Leave atleast chance for user decide what tools are easy to access or bring them back to toolbar.

At this point

[JohanElzenga]

Why? You have to dig deeper into the new masking to understand why. These are not separate tools anymore, there is now one single mask tool that can create all kinds of much more advanced masks, by adding or subtracting 'submasks'. It takes some time to get used to, but it is really much more powerful, so do not jump to conclusions by just looking at the interface. There are already some tutorials on YouTube, so start there.

[JP Hess]

The new interface offers a lot more flexibility. Have you even taken the time to watch the tutorials that have been offered? It takes a little time to adapt and understand how to use new tools. Give yourself a little time and do a little experimenting before you complain.

[dj_paige]

It's part of a total redesign of the local adjustments. 

Perfectly reasonable for you to dislike it. I'm happy to have this redesign of local adjustment.

Has even one photographer doing real workflow tested this change?

Yes, there is a video on YouTube of a real photographer doing real work with this change, and he seemed extremely happy about it, and called it a "game changer". Why do you ask?

[PetriPuurunen]

Hi. Read again:  "Leave atleast chance for user decide what tools are easy to access or bring them back to toolbar."

Same tools - faster access if they put straight to "front line" and not hidden under menu-structure.

[PetriPuurunen]

Hi. Im not against the technical changes.    "Leave atleast chance for user decide what tools are easy to access or bring them back to toolbar."

Same tools - faster access if they put straight to "front line" and not hidden under menu-structure.

[Bob Somrak]

The old tools are not coming back so you might as well learn to use the new ones.  The new Masking provide a lot more function. 

[JP Hess]

Change is always something that we must adapt to. I'm sure the developers deliberated extensively on how to make all the new features available. Yes, the new interface is a bit strange. But spend 15 min. becoming accustomed to it, and all will be well and you will live and life will go on. Deal with it! The interface changes. It has changed countless times through the years and it will continue to do so. That's how software works. I don't think anyone is going to wipe your tears and side with you. It's a new version with new features that requires interface changes.

[tmickow]

If folks would chill a little and try using things for awhile before screaming that they're the worst things ever, we'd all be better off.  Constructive feedback is also better than coming in hot on the first day with subjects like "Idiotic changes on User Interface" (which I see has been changed now - thanks whoever did that).  Regretfully, this feels like one of those threads that ends up filling mailboxes with petty bickering.

For what it's worth, the shortcut keys are still the same.  If you're opposed to that extra mouse click, try using K, M & Shift+M to get straight to the tools.  Learning & using keyboard shortcuts is a great way to speed up your workflow.

[GoldingD]

Well, you could bring up the article on this very same community site that Adobe placed their to read about the changes.

When Adobe puts out a major upgrade, you really should read that article they place their.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/lightroom-classic-11-0-is-now-available...

You will need to click on various links in that article. 

As for the Adjustment brushes, now under new button for Masking, with additional methods added. IMO, As these methods have been added, placing the adjustment brush buttons in one area got too cumbersome, hence a change, an extra step.

[Conrad C]

@PetriPuurunen wrote:

Same tools - faster access if they put straight to "front line" and not hidden under menu-structure.

---

The thing is, it s not just “the same tools.” They added new masked adjustment tools like Select Subject and Select Sky. If there is going to be room for more adjustment tools in the future, they won’t fit in that narrow strip. By putting them all in a single Masking section, there is now room for growth.

@PetriPuurunen wrote:

Hi. Im not against the technical changes.    "Leave atleast chance for user decide what tools are easy to access

---

Maybe they will in the future, like in Photoshop where you can customize the Tools panel.

@PetriPuurunen wrote:

Same tools - faster access if they put straight to "front line" and not hidden under menu-structure.

---

The tools still have keyboard shortcuts, so as you might already be doing in previous versions, if you learn the shortcut for your favorite tool, you can have immediate access whether or not you can see the tool.

[dj_paige]

Hi. Read again:  "Leave atleast chance for user decide what tools are easy to access or bring them back to toolbar."

Same tools - faster access if they put straight to "front line" and not hidden under menu-structure.

By @PetriPuurunen

So make the suggestion to Adobe, not us. We are not Adobe in the "Discussions" part of the forum, we can't make changes to the software. Go to the "Ideas" part of the forum and explain to Adobe what you want and why you want it.

[PetriPuurunen]

Yes, keyboard shortcuts were shown somewhere. Still, that toolbar looks quite empty. So why not put some actions.

[PetriPuurunen]

Well, technically different tools but results are that matter.  First basic things on UI-design is to avoid extra-steps and make (using tools) straight forward.  Now we have received extra steps and multi-level tools. 

[TheDigitalDog]

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@PetriPuurunen wrote:

Has even one photographer doing real workflow tested this change?

---

Many, yes. Some are posting here in fact. 

[richardplondon]

I loved how this little drop of "back-down-to-earth" survived into the announcement

(it is, of course, no criticism of these new features in themselves)

[Bob Somrak]

You expect it to be perfect all the time.  Beings it is separated from the rest of the hair by the hand than it could have been some bushes it the background and if the bushes were selected then there would be complaints about that.  I am sure the algorithms will be improved as time goes on.

[PetriPuurunen]

Its not "flexibilty" when you have to do extra mousebutton clicks to reach functions what were earlier in toolbar.  Its "ok" when do it for one photo. Edit photos whole day and do same things on tens or hundreds of photos - thats more than just annoyning.

[TheDigitalDog]

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@PetriPuurunen wrote:

 thats more than just annoyning.

---

Simple solution: Don't update! You can set this in the CC application (turn off Auto Update). 

[PetriPuurunen]

Well, its not about "old tools". Its about overall usability. Why hide most used functions when you have whole toolbar nearly empty ? Sorry for english, not my first or even second language.

[richardplondon]

Yes sure - I just found it comical that the image example selected by Adobe should have needlessly included such a prominent instance of that issue. Was this over-candour, or under-awareness?  

Quick and easy thiing to sort out manually once noticed - just a few automasked brush dabs, absolutely no biggie. And the remainder of that mask, I do find remarkably impressive.

[JohanElzenga]

Well, its not about "old tools". Its about overall usability. Why hide most used functions when you have whole toolbar nearly empty ? 

That is exactly why you have to familiarise yourself with it before you jump to conclusions. The three 'most used' tools you mention, were simply the only three tools. That is why they were most used! Now you have eight tools in total, and I predict that the 'old three' are not going to be your most used tools for long anymore, once you get to know the new tools. Just one example: the graduated filter was perhaps even the most used tool of all, especially for landscape photographers. They used it (mostly in combination with a range mask) to select the sky. But now you have the Select Sky tool, than can do the same, but better and easier.

Adobe could not add eight tools to that bar, so rather than choosing three arbitrary tools (just because they are the most familiar right now), they chose the have one button with all eight tools below it. To me that makes sense, and if it doesn't make sense to you, then check out the keyboard shortcuts...

[Conrad C]

If you feel strongly enough about this issue, it’s probably time to escalate it above this user-to-user forum and take it to the Lightroom team directly. You can do that two ways: 

Go to the Ideas section of this forum and create a feature request with your reasoning. 

This is the week of the free Adobe MAX conference online, which gives you a rare opportunity to talk to the developers and ask questions live. The Lightroom Classic team is participating in one of the live Meet the Team sessions. The Lightroom Classic session is on Thursday October 28 at 9 a.m. Pacific time. You can also watch some of the tutorial sessions, such as Next-Level Image Editing with Photoshop Lightroom Classic - S454. 

[Bob Somrak]

@richardplondon 

Sorry Richard.  I see now what you are saying as it is an Adobe example image for the announcement.  Pretty humorous and thanks for pointing it out.  

[Jop_Photo]

I hope Adobe is reading this 🙂

Since the update the masking tool takes one action too many (it sounds minor, but it prolongs the editing process unnecessary in my opinion).

Normally pressing M (or K or shift+M) would show all mask pins already used when hovering the photo with the cursor, just the way it still works using the spot remeval tool (Q). But now pressing M, it opens a new mask, without showing the old pins. Another 'action' is needed to see what masks are already on the photo.

I hope this gets changed soon.

Or am I missing something?