P:(Masking) Reduce number of clicks, KBSCs to perform certain actions

[Jop_Photo]

I hope Adobe is reading this 🙂

Since the update the masking tool takes one action too many (it sounds minor, but it prolongs the editing process unnecessary in my opinion).

Normally pressing M (or K or shift+M) would show all mask pins already used when hovering the photo with the cursor, just the way it still works using the spot remeval tool (Q). But now pressing M, it opens a new mask, without showing the old pins. Another 'action' is needed to see what masks are already on the photo.

I hope this gets changed soon.

Or am I missing something?

[vincent musi]

I'm distraught by this "improvement" as well and it will challenge me greatly to move forward with the software. (I have reverted back to the previous version for as long as I can ) Repeated stress is an occupational hazard and these new extra keystroke "shortcuts" are simply dangerous as well as incredibly time-consuming.

[Jop_Photo]

Well, I'm quite happy with how Lightroom works, and I believe these kind of updates just take a little attention and time from us to adjust to is. I do agree with you this is a pretty big change for people who are not too familiar with keyboard shortcuts...

Tip: when you want to see what masks are already used, hold S when using the Masking tool (someone just hinted me for this trick)

Hope it helps.

Stick to it mate 🙂

[vincent musi]

I am giving it the time and attention. That's why I am here. To be clear, in the previous version of LR, you placed your cursor on the image and created a mask. To create another mask you did the same. You did not need an additional keystroke or click to bring up the mask again. This adds thousands of unneccesary additional clicks and/or cursor movements as well as time to an average edit.

[Jop_Photo]

I agree with you that it would be easier to not have to press the N key for a new masking layer, I can imagine they'll change this back to how it was.

[@MNiessenPhoto]

"it would be easier to not have to press the N key for a new masking layer"

Just to clarify, you don't have to press the N key to create a new mask. Pressing K will create a new layer with the brush tool selected; Alt/Option+K will add to the same mask. M and Alt/Option+M will do the same for a graduated filter and so on...

Hope that helps,

Michael

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Michael Niessen - Photographer, photo-editor, educator ([moderator deleted the URL from the signature. Kindly note that URLs in the signature may be considered as spam])

[@MNiessenPhoto]

"To be clear, in the previous version of LR, you placed your cursor on the image and created a mask. To create another mask you did the same. You did not need an additional keystroke or click to bring up the mask again."

On the other hand, before you couldn't see all types of masks (graduated, radial, brush) in one place. Now not only are all the pins visible at once, but you also see the thumbnail showing what is masked. I can't even imagine how many times I've had to click on (or press the shortcut) for each kind of filter to see what was there, when reviewing pictures I had edited long before, or moving the cursor on top of each pin until I found the filter I wanted to edit.

Definitely too soon to know if it will be a time saver or waster, but I would tend to think it'll be the former, given how oftern I use masks.

I hope it's the same for you 😉

Michael

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Michael Niessen - Photographer, photo-editor, educator ([moderator deleted the URL from the signature. Kindly note that URLs in the signature may be considered as spam])

[vincent musi]

I'm not sure how pressing any combination of keystrokes is easier or an improvement over not having to press them at all.  How many fingers does it take to press Alt/Option+M on your keyboard while holding a Wacom pen ? Perhaps I'm the only one.

[Salvatore0101]

How can I revert back to previuos version?  This sucks!!!!!

[@MNiessenPhoto]

"I'm not sure how pressing any combination of keystrokes is easier or an improvement over not having to press them at all."

It is different from previous LrC versions, but you still can choose how you want to select the tool: mouse, wacom pen, finger on touch screen or with shortcuts.

In no version of Lightroom (or any software) can you do things without having to do any of those...

Michael

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Michael Niessen - Photographer, photo-editor, educator ([moderator deleted the URL from the signature. Kindly note that URLs in the signature may be considered as spam])

[Jop_Photo]

It helps, good to know you can put layer over layer over layer using the alt/option+M key. But you have to agree with me that puts too much focus on the keyboard.

With the previous LR version you could just drag a mask, then another, and another, and another without touching the keyboard. Now you have to use the keyboard everytime you need a new mask. I don't think that' the most efficient way.

[vincent musi]

uninstall and replace with the previous version

[Jop_Photo]

Just to let you know, I'm not here to only talk negative @MNiessenPhoto  😉 And I don't mind change at all, life is about being able to adjust (sorry, getting a bit mindfull here). 

Indeed time will tell if it's a maker or breaker. I just think the less keyboard actions needed, the more friendly an editing process is.

[vincent musi]

In the previous version of LR, select a radial mask, draw mask. Without leaving the image and without the help of any keystrokes or shortcuts, draw another mask. 

[@MNiessenPhoto]

"But you have to agree with me that puts too much focus on the keyboard."

As much as I'm trying to, I can't 😉

From my perspective, everything you can do with a mouse (because yes, you can do everything with just the mouse), you can also do most of it with shortcuts, short of actually brushing or placing the filter where you want it. To me, that is a good thing, because you can choose the way you prefer to work.

You can easily click on "create new mask" instead of pressing M, or on the "Add" button instead of Alt/Option+M.

Not saying this new masking method is perfect, but I'm really struggling to see what the issue is here, being able to use both mouse and keyboard 😉

It's different, worse for some actions, better for others.

Michael

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Michael Niessen - Photographer, photo-editor, educator ([moderator deleted the URL from the signature. Kindly note that URLs in the signature may be considered as spam])

[Jop_Photo]

Haha different people, different opinions.

Before I only used the keyboard (M, K, Q, shift+M) to activate different masks, I don't like to hover to the 'create new mask' button using my trackpad. I used to work pressing M, drag 3 masks (+adjustments), done.

Now I have to press M, drag a mask (hold shift to level), press N or M for a new mask, drag a mask, press N or M for a new mask, etc...

[@MNiessenPhoto]

"Haha different people, different opinions."

Definitely 😉

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind being able to draw graduated/radial filters one after the other without pressing/clicking anything, it's just not a big deal to me compared to the advantages I see in the new masks.

Oh, and one last thing... I wouldn't want to do anything that's not strictly necessary with a trackpad either, they're evil! 😛

Michael

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Michael Niessen - Photographer, photo-editor, educator ([moderator deleted the URL from the signature. Kindly note that URLs in the signature may be considered as spam])

[tjeerd paulj59535807]

I don't mind how it looks and the new panel has great new features.

But there are some major flaws here. 

Previously you could select the radial tool 

Single Click drag.  

Do Adjustments.

Done.

Now you want a 2nd radial  ? you just drag a 2nd or 3th or 4th time.

That's all it took before. 

This was one of the few things that made local editing Lightroom workflow superior to other editing applications. Now it's worse. 

Simply compare editing a image with 5-10 local adjustments in the previous way and the current way.

Then count your input actions needed. 

It's 5 times more clicks, 5 times more mouse movementt. 5 times slower.

This is simply bad design.  Workflow and UX totally ignored in every way. 

It's a joke. If you are a serious user and you can count clicks and mouse movements you will agree with the major flaws here. 

Has a real Adobe developer actually tested this and compare it to the previous workflow?

Obviously not. 

Again i like all the new features that are added. But the local adjustment workflow is 50 % less efficient from a UX/ workflow perspective. This is just bad design. 

[dj_paige]

I don't mind how it looks and the new panel has great new features.

But there are some major flaws here. 

Previously you could select the radial tool 

Single Click drag.  

Do Adjustments.

Done.

Now:

Shift-M

Single click drag

Do adjustments

Done

No real substantive difference in my opinion.

[tjeerd paulj59535807]

You have to press the keyboard shortcut for every local adjustment, even when it's the same type of mask is a flaw. Not a difference. 

Previously you could simply repeat click and drag to add another of the same adjustment. 

A user should only need to press a shortcut if you need to change to a different mask type.

If a specific mask is selected it should simply repeat this mask + current local settings when click/dragging is repeated. 

There is no reason to change this behaviour , especially when it can coexist with the new design in every way.  

[dj_paige]

There is no reason to change this behaviour , especially when it can coexist with the new design in every way.  

By @tjeerd paulj59535807

I'm sure the Adobe designers felt there was a reason to change this behavior.

But ... this really isn't a topic for the "Discussions" part of the forum, because Adobe designers and programmers don't read this part of the forum, and those of us who are here can't change the user interface. You need to make your concerns and suggestions known in the "Ideas" part of the forum, which Adobe designers and programmers do read.

[tmickow]

@tjeerd paulj59535807 There's a difference between the OP and what you're saying though.  Just getting to the tools is one thing.  Repeated use of the same tool is another.  In a workflow where you're repeatedly using the same tool to apply additional masks, I can see where the new interface would get in the way.  There was another post about someone who had hundreds of headshots.  Previously they were able to have the adjustment brush selected and set to soften skin or something and just roll through picture to picture using that same brush to make their adjustments.  Now they have to reselect the brush everytime they move to a new image. I can see where they'd prefer not having to go from 0 clicks/keyboard shortcuts to hundreds. 

Rather than rant about that here though, you'd be better off laying out the problem (without all the extra emotion) and posting it as an idea.  That way, others could chime in with their experiences and vote for it.

[GoldingD]

A very good video on masking, long but worth it, carve out some time to watch it in entirety. Lots covered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Fld8eEHsE

[PetriPuurunen]

Yes. This is exaclty the case. Lightroom was originally developed for fast fluent workflow. Latest changes are something that wasnt tested on real for use. Otherwise these kind oddities and brain-f*rts wouldnt exist on a release version. I hope Adobe will fix this asap.

[PetriPuurunen]

Try to do this for several tens or hundreds of photos. Before this release it was way much faster to do because for example radial-tool stayed selected when changing to next photo. Now you have to same extra steps for each photo.

[dj_paige]

If you want to let Adobe know (instead of your fellow LrC users, who inhabit this Discussion channel) you can go to the Ideas section and post your concerns. Adobe doesn't normally read the Discussions part of the forum. Asking for something to change here in the Discussions does nothing.