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6

AI generative fill not creating clouds in sky

Participant ,
Nov 19, 2023 Nov 19, 2023

The photo has a tree covering the top 2/5 of the frame, land and other stuff filling the bottom 2/5. In the middle is sky (interupted by the tree trunk. All sky is selected inclding some parts between the leaves, I type in "fill sky with clouds and blue sky" or "fill sky with clouds" and all is see is a bigger hole in the tree showing more sky. What did I do wrong? How to make my now grey/white sky fill up with blue and clouds?

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is important is invisible to the eye." ---------The Little Prince
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Participant ,
Nov 19, 2023 Nov 19, 2023

Addendum: With the sky part selected I tried the "Edit --> Sky replacement" and I was prompted with. "Could not replace the sky because no sky was detected" I would assume this is why the AI Generative fill did not work. but either wayI do not understand why this is so. DOes the sky have to be on top with no obstacles?

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is important is invisible to the eye." ---------The Little Prince
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Community Expert ,
Nov 20, 2023 Nov 20, 2023

Please try Sky Replacement without any active Selection. 

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Community Expert ,
Nov 20, 2023 Nov 20, 2023

@pintree3 can you show your image so we have an idea of what you are trying to accomplish?

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Participant ,
Nov 25, 2023 Nov 25, 2023

Thanks ye all 🙂 

pfaffenbichler your method did not work at all. The download is here kevin, a jpg version. I have many of such shots BTW (with the sky not on the top)

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is important is invisible to the eye." ---------The Little Prince
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Community Expert ,
Nov 26, 2023 Nov 26, 2023

Well, to be blunt that image seems pretty bad for what you are trying to do. 

What’s up with the overlayed pattern? Is that a flyscreen? 

 

I expect full automization may not be a realistic option at current, but a Layer Mask based on the green Channel and a very plain Layer Mask for the horizone should provide a fairly decent basis. 

Screenshot 2023-11-26 at 11.48.34.pngScreenshot 2023-11-26 at 11.57.33.png

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Engaged ,
Jan 03, 2024 Jan 03, 2024

I'm also having trouble getting Generative Fill to create realistic clouds to use to enhance a bland sky.  I've asked for "a few small clounds" which generated a fill with a large mountain range and some big clouds, I've asked for "a thin layer of circus clouds" which generated cumulus clouds, and another one where an eliptical selection was made, asked for circus clounds and it generated nothing.  I'm beginning to wonder if the language understanding model is not able to parse out the key parts of my request.  I have had some pretty good results when I'm making a selection of something I want removed from the image.  In those cases I did not specify what to do, just clicked the generate button with no instructions. 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 03, 2024 Jan 03, 2024

Could you please post screenshots with the pertinent Panels (Toolbar, Layers, Properties, Options Bar, …) visible? 

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Engaged ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

I had to recreate my attempt at adding clouds to the sky of a black and white image.  Exactly what you see below is a little different than what I saw yesterday when I was working on this photo.  This first screen shot is what I started working with.  Not quite all of the layers are visible in the layers panel.  There's a B&W layer at the top of the stack.

BillJunk_0-1704371665864.png

The next screen shot shows my request to add a few high-level cirrus clouds to a portion of the sky.

BillJunk_4-1704373927045.png

 

 

 

And here is the resulting fill:

BillJunk_5-1704374048917.png

 

This is somewhat different from many of the results I received yesterday, but it still illustrates the problem.  First the clouds are cumulus and not cirrus and they are not along the top of the image.  They fill about 80% of the selected area.  Second, the Generative Fill added more mountains above the ones that existed before the fill was performed and are now blocking some of the sky. The ones added today are a bit more consistent with the real mountains in that location, while yesterday's were jagged, rocky peaks.  Third, there was a strange object added to the top of the outhouse and the lettering on the sign over the door that said "Shown by Appointment Only" has been changed to something that is not recognizable.  The outhouse was not in the selected area to be filled.  I will add that the instructions I gave to Generative Fill for this example are not exactly the same as what I was telling it to do in yesterday's attempt, but the general nature of what I was asking for is the same.  The other Generative Fill layers you see in the layer stack worked quite well to remove things that I did not want in the image.  For those Generative Fills I did not give instructions for what I wanted.  I just selected the area I wanted "replaced" then clicked on the Generate button and let it do its thing.

 

I'd appreciate any thought you might have about the way I'm trying to give instructions or whether I'm expecting the tool to do more than it's currently capable of doing.  

 

    Bill

 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

@Bill Junk this might be too specific for the AI at this time. A better solution may be to use Sky Replacement. There you can either use existing images or upload your own sky images to use. This was an out of the box somewhat Cirrus looking cloud formation:

kevinstohlmeyer_0-1704375424725.png

 

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Engaged ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024
I appreciate the feedback. I'm also wondering why the generative fill actually modifies areas that are outside the selected area.

Bill
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Engaged ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

The sky that you added to my image is more of what I was hoping Generative Fill would provide.  I suppose that in time things will improve significantly.

  Bill

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

I think you could rethink your use of Generative Fill for cases like this. 

Why not create cirrus clouds and then place them in the proper Layer Mask?

As one would do when combining (stock) images before. 

(Though I can not vouch for Genetaive Fill’s metereological savvy … so whether the cirrus clouds meet your expectation remeins to be seen.) 

 

Strangely I think until recently there used to be a thread on prompts for Generative Fill tagged to the top of the Forum. 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/how-to-create-effective-ai-prompts-ph...

Still I think a prompt like «the sky needs …« is not ideal, the verb seems vague and unhelpful. 

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Engaged ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

The reason I went to Gnerative Fill is that it seemed like a reasonably direct (easy?) way to change or remove something that I didn't like or to which I wanted to make a modest improvement that didn't really change the basic nature of the image.  I guess I was expecting more capability from Generative Fill than was really available right now.  I have not seen a thread that suggest how to structure Generative Fill requests.  All that I've seen are the short, one sentence suggestions that come along with invoking the tool.  I'm also somewhat torn between leaving an image the way it was shot or making changes that don't retain the basic content and integrity of the original photo - in other words after eigher using Generative Fill or blending in part of another image, the new image is not the real scene, but rather some kind of abstraction of it.  In some ways it's a bit of an ethical dilema for me.  How I reconcile what to do must consider what the intent of the final image will be.  Am I trying to do artistic creation and "reality doesn't matter" or am I trying to show a real place as I saw and photographed it with just a few changes the enhance the composition.  These new technological advances sometimes make the decision as to what is acceptable to do much harder to make.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

1) I suppose Generative Fill will be improved with time, whether it ever will ever your or the general public’s expectations remains to be seen. 

But removing unwanted (smallish) elements in a photograph seems to work pretty well, the noise/grain may need checking, though. 

 

2) It is honorable that you consider Image integrity; but unless you work in journalism/documentation but rather in advertising/fashion/art/… I think you can assume that the audience is (at least vaguely) aware that the image is not a plain, unedited representation of a scenery. 

I like to compare such photography to the paintings, in particular portraits, one might encounter at the great collections – who would expect Rembrandt, Dürer etc. to have provided an exact, documentary representation of a person/scene? 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024
quote

Third, there was a strange object added to the top of the outhouse and the lettering on the sign over the door that said "Shown by Appointment Only" has been changed to something that is not recognizable.

You can still edit the Layer Mask to hide unintended elements. 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

@c.pfaffenbichler That would leave you with a hole in the generative results. Your original idea of generating the sky completely separately then compositing into the image is a better option than trying to edit the mask post generation.

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Engaged ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

Had not thouight about doing that.  I'll need to figure out how to do it.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Much appreciated.

     Bill

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

@Bill Junk make a selection approximate to the sky area. Then create a blank layer and hide the original image layers. Generate your prompt (this is "whispy clouds")

kevinstohlmeyer_0-1704379305156.png

Then make a selection of your original sky area and use that to apply a new mask to the generated layer:

kevinstohlmeyer_1-1704379423408.png

You can shift the edge using Select and Mask to contract/expand the area to remove fringing.

 

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Engaged ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

I haven't figured out how to do that with a mask on a Generative Fill layer.  Using a brush to remove some of the mask didn't seem to work.  I'm probably doing something wrong, but have no idea what.

I ended up using the Sky Replacement feature which let me select a reasonable sky for this image just to make the sky more interesting since the original color image had a blue sky with no clouds. Then I was able to correct an artifact resulting from something I removed with a Generative Fill layer.  I applied a Brightness/Contrast layer as a Clipping Mask applied to another Generative Fill to get things looking smooth and continuous.   Likely the hard way to do it but it works and I'm satisifed.  Although I've been working with Photoshop for many years there's so much more I need to learn!

As far as a comment I made about trying to retain image integrity, there are times that I think it is important even when it's not related to image use in commercial settings.  This image was a case where I was willing to let artistic creativity be the guide, rather than showing the scene exactly as it was originally photographed.  There certainly are a few people who would know that the image has been doctored, but they are not likely to ever see the final one.  Here's the original color image followed by the "new" black and white artistically creative image.  Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.  For anyone interested this photo was taken in Silver City, Idaho.

BillJunk_1-1704384818138.png

 

 

 

 

BillJunk_0-1704384687497.png

 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024

Then you can Group the Layer and add a Layer Mask to the Group for additional masking. 

Could you please post screenshots with the pertinent Panels (Toolbar, Layers, Options Bar, …) visible? 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 04, 2024 Jan 04, 2024
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@Bill Junk

1. Select the existing mask on the generated layer and delete it.

2. Make your new selection of your original sky.

3. Select the Generative Fill layer - create a new mask.

4. With the new mask selected - use Select and Mask (button in properties or option bar above) and adjust Shift Edge setting.

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