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Inspiring
January 12, 2012

Meanwhile at the barn, John Nack has an interesting blog post this morning.

Titled:

New upgrade options for CS3 and CS4 customers

Participating Frequently
January 12, 2012

I don't upgrade Photoshop every time - it's not worth it for me.  Every two or three, yes.  But the incremental benefit from each upgrade is, for me, pretty marginal, whatever the hype from Adobe.  I have CS5.  Unless CS6 is so good it lets me walk on water, I won't get it.  The amnesty for CS6 doesn't help me. 

I'm not making any moral point about Adobe "letting down" their customers.  Adobe's upgrade policy is a purely commercial matter.  As is my decision not to upgrade every time, or ever if I can't upgrade two or three ago. 

Semaphoric
Community Expert
Community Expert
January 12, 2012

> Props to Adobe for listening to its customers.  Looks like I'll be upgrading to CS6 after all.  I hope too many people didn't rush to buy CS5.5 last month, just for that 20% discount (though I see it's still in effect even now, even though it was supposed to end with the old year).

I noticed that too. I currently have 5.5 in my Adobe shopping cart. I figured I'd keep it there until March 15, and then pull the trigger, on the chance I'd fall into the "grace period", you know, if you bought less than xxx ago, get the new one free.

I 've been having a tough time justifying buying into every new version of the entire suite, especially when only some of the apps have compelling new features. I'm so glad I can again skip a version like I've been, and then have a couple of years until I have to confront the issue again.

Participating Frequently
January 12, 2012

Well, that brings up one of the biggest complaints regarding Adobe's new upgrade policy: a sense of diminishing returns with each new upgrade cycle. Some new features (like content aware fill in Photoshop or the Warp Stabilizer in After Effects) are great and very useful. Others, like the perspective grid in Illustrator, are kind of "meh." I rarely ever used the perspective grid when the feature was added to Freehand a decade ago. That's just me though. With apps like Photoshop and Illustrator there's a core set of functions we use all the time and then other things we may rarely ever use.

The fact remains a LOT of users don't believe every upgrade is worth it. They want the option of sitting out one or two version cycles until enough big features pile up to make upgrading finally worth it. This applies to far more than just Adobe's software. I know people who use ancient versions of Microsoft Office on old Win XP machines because it does everything they need it to do. They may not move up to something like Office 2010 on a new Windows 7 machine until the old one finally dies.

What about the possibility of a new release being buggy and best to avoid? Anyone remember Macromedia Freehand 10? It had problems, particularly the Mac version -billed as the first vector drawing app made for Mac OSX. Worse yet, Macromedia did little if anything at all to offer bug fixes. That forced a lot of FH users to stick with Freehand 9 and wait for Freehand MX. Macromedia Studio suite users were pretty annoyed when Freehand MX was not included with Macromedia Studio 8. This happened during the lead up to Adobe acquiring Macromedia (and eventually retiring Freehand). Incedentally, when I upgraded to Adobe Master Collection CS5.5 I could have used either my CS3 license or my old Studio 8 license.

Every upgrade for an application or suite of applications has its own set of issues for each user. It's not as simple as "if you're a loyal Adobe customer you'll buy every upgrade." What if your current computer isn't powerful enough to handle the new version? What if it has a 32-bit OS and the apps, like After Effects, require a 64-bit OS? Not everyone has the money laying around for both a new computer and graphics suite upgrade. Even though frequent hardware and software upgrades may be no problem for some businesses, times have been pretty tough for a lot of people.

At the very least, Adobe ought to stick with its previous upgrade model of perpetual licenses of Creative Suite products. If the Creative Cloud is as great as Adobe believes Adobe ought to show they have enough faith in Creative Cloud by not forcing perpetual license owners to move over to it by adopting the 1 version back upgrade model.

Hudechrome
Known Participant
January 12, 2012

With a name like Bob the Sign Guy, I can't resist:

What's your sign, Bob?

Participating Frequently
January 12, 2012

Props to Adobe for listening to its customers.  Looks like I'll be upgrading to CS6 after all.  I hope too many people didn't rush to buy CS5.5 last month, just for that 20% discount (though I see it's still in effect even now, even though it was supposed to end with the old year).

Yes, it does still seem as if Adobe is planning to alter the upgrade policy again later, but at least this way they're allowing customers to go into the new situation with their eyes open.  And as I've said before, if Adobe sticks to its ~24 month cycle for new major releases then I don't see what they plan to do as being nearly as objectionable as it would be otherwise (every 12 months is too often to upgrade software is expensive as the Master Collection, IMO).  Assuming the "1 version back" policy is instituded for CS7, people who buy CS6 this year have a theoretical 4 year window in which they don't need to spend any more money (assuming they don't mind going without CS7 during the majority of its lifetime; they could purchase it shortly before CS8 comes out, and then have another 2 years before deciding what to do about CS9).

ProDesignTools
Community Expert
Community Expert
January 11, 2012
c.pfaffenbichler
Community Expert
Community Expert
January 12, 2012

Quote from the page ProDesignTools linked to: 

»Therefore, we’re pleased to announce that we will offer special introductory upgrade pricing on Creative Suite 6 to our customers who own CS3 or CS4.«

What sincerity-level do any of you detect in the word »pleased« here?

Anyway: I am pleasantly surprised that Adobe revised the decision (until »December 31, 2012« at least).

D Fosse
Community Expert
Community Expert
January 12, 2012

c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

What sincerity-level do any of you detect in the word »pleased« here?

Pleased as in "oh, please"...

Noel Carboni
Legend
December 22, 2011

Certainly not everyone needs the same things nor has the same business models, but it seems to me that Adobe IS adding value to each new release, at least of Photoshop... 

In my world, it's been a good bit more value than the upgrade price.

I have personally saved many hours of work using the Content Aware Fill feature alone, time with Puppet Warp - e.g., in tidying up curvature in panoramas, which by the way were painless because Photomerge works better than ever.  Certainly (with tweaking of settings and development of my own new defaults) the 2010 process in Camera Raw is giving me better results than before from the same camera equipment, meaning I didn't have to put more money into more megapixels just yet.  Refine Edge has been another time saver. 

As always, it takes some finesse to leverage the new features into practical gains, but these features are real, not just window dressing.

-Noel

Participating Frequently
December 22, 2011

Unfortunately, this issue is more broad than merely Photoshop.  At $200, Photoshop upgrades are a relatively minor expenditure at best, even for a modest business.  Heck, a pair of socks can cost more than that.  People who use the suites, particularly the Master Collection, are being asked to spend a heck of a lot more at extremely short-notice, or risk losing the ability to upgrade later (at least according to everything Adobe has said thus far).  As a CS3 user, I can either pay about $1150 now with the paltry 20% discount, closer to $1500 at some point in the next few months if Adobe hasn't announced some alteration or addendum to this new upgrade model, or full price yet again for the CS6 Master Collection (around $2600) with no upgrade benefit at all.

What rubs me the wrong way about this is the timing, almost exclusively.  The shift itself would be reasonable had it been announced upon the release of CS5, giving everyone fair warning and the chance to buy CS5 and actually get a couple years use out of it.  But timing it now as they did, in conjunction with a tiny discount, Adobe is essentially exploiting their users and attempting to use this situation to push a few more copies of CS5.5 off the shelves before it's replaced in a few months.  The exploitation is what bothers me, rather than the new upgrade policy itself.  If Adobe sticks to their 24 month cycle, then IMO it's not unreasonable to ask their users to upgrade every 2 years (with the option to upgrade to the .5 version each year, if someone is the type to just have to have the latest version).  The entire reason I myself adopted a version (or two) skipping policy is because every 12 months was just too often to justify upgrading the full Master Collection.  Every 24 months is acceptable, provided Adobe alters this upgrade policy in such a way as to not exploit current users by forcing them to make a purchase they never intended in order to qualify for an upgrade they were counting on being eligible for without said purchase.

So if Adobe maintains their policy of a grace period after CS6 is announced, allowing CS2/3/4 users to upgrade to CS5.5 and receive a free CS6 upgrade upon its release, then I plan to do that and then proceed to upgrade every 24 months, as required.  If instead they choose to forgo the grace period, or some other mitigating element to make this new upgrade policy easier to transition in to, I'll begin looking for alternative software.

Inspiring
December 22, 2011

Yeah its is very cynical on their part, pushing people to upgrade to a version that they know only has a few months of life left, it does make me a little concerned about the grace period as well, I mean all the people who are taking the 20% offer now are clearly only doing it as an upgrade path, and so if there is a grace period those upgraders are going to feel conned.

I think it will just lead to more piracy, because people are gonna feel very bitter.

Inspiring
December 21, 2011

Am I missing something here, can't everyone do what we intend to do, wait for CS6 to be announced, then immediatly upgrade your copies of CS3 or CS4 to CS5.5, and then claim you're free upgrade to CS6, adobe have always offered a grace period in the past and there is no reason to think they won't this time. You would be mad to take the 20% offer now when you could get a free upgrade in a few months time

John Waller
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 21, 2011

wait for CS6 to be announced, then immediatly upgrade your copies of CS3 or CS4 to CS5.5, and then claim you're free upgrade to CS6

I wonder if Adobe have already factored that into their CS6 marketing.

It's a wise strategy but will only apply to the next upgrade cycle (CS2/3/4 > CS5.5 paid for upgrade during grace period after CS6 is announced > CS6 free upgrade).

After that, it's on to the benign subscription model for perpetual licenses - a.k.a. must upgrade every cycle to enjoy upgrade pricing.

adobe have always offered a grace period in the past and there is no reason to think they won't this time.

One caveat I can think of is that no-one saw the end of the "3 versions back" policy coming so who knows what they'll change about the traditional grace period and when?

Inspiring
December 21, 2011

Thats a fair point, but removing the grace period entirly would be hugely unpopular and unfair, especially to brand new customers who have just bought CS5.5 days or weeks before CS6 comes out.

I can see the advantage of one version back upgrades, it forces everyone to be on the latest version at some point in the 2 year lifecycle of each version, or face having to re-pay the full purchase price to upgrade, and for me trying to manage a company that currently runs 4 different versions of CS that would be a huge advantage, but then again we haven't skipped versions for no reason there simply hasn't been enough cash to upgrade 10 copies every 12 -18 months, and skipping has alowed us to invest in other needed software such as a font server, I just fear that if we know we have to upgrade every 2 years, all our software budget will go on that.

Semaphoric
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 6, 2011

For me, it's not so much the priciple of the change, it's the lack of funds.

<Homer Simpson> Stupid economy! </Homer Simpson>

I suppose, if I do get the CS5.5 upgrade, but don't fall into the grace period, I'd still have like two years to get the upgrade to CS6.0 before I'd be SOL about upgrading to CS7.0. Maybe I'll win the Lotto or something.

I wonder how this will play out with Adobe's European customers, as they already pay much more than Americans do.

Semaphoric
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 6, 2011

I'm trying to decide now if the newer features of the Suite, especially Content Aware Fill in Photoshop and Perspective Grids in Illustrator, combined with the 20% discount, would be enough for me to justify the 5.5 upgrade now. I have 25 days to decide (when the discount ends). There's so many other purchases I've been forgoing, other software, lenses, et al., that it will take a lot of thought and consideration.

And you just wait, the grace peiod will be, "If you bought 5.5 after January 1, 2012".

Damn, Adobe, you used to be cool.

Participating Frequently
December 6, 2011

Unfortunately more and more large American businesses are more steeped to selling stock to shareholders instead of selling product to customers.

Lots of graphic designers are caught in a squeeze. The broader economy is still pretty bad, making it necessary for many to work even harder chasing after a limited number of projects. A lot of markets have been poisoned by self-taught amateurs who don't know what to charge for certain types of work. Sadly, the average customer doesn't know the difference between good design and bad design. So they'll save a buck and get their stuff from someone likely to set everything in freaking Arial and Comic Sans, with the lettering distorted to boot. Amateur hour has affected most niches of creative work. I recently saw an article (I think at the Forbes web site) listing 10 jobs where the earnings weren't worth the hassle or overhead to pursue. Professional photographer was listed among those jobs. Anyone with a DSLR suddenly thinks he's Eddie Adams. By that logic, if I buy the same model of Les Paul used by Zack Wylde shouldn't I be able to play just as well as him?

Anyway, the simple point of that rant is many designers do not have it easy. If Adobe wants to start hitting users with a sort of Apple style "Mac tax" for the priveledge of using their software products it's just going to make the situation a little bit tougher still.

Re: the perspective grid in Illustrator. I rarely ever used that feature when it was introduced in Macromedia Freehand. It may come in handy for certain kinds of graphic effects. In terms of creating a 3D illustration or 3D technical drawing, I would rather use a real 3D modeling program to get the job done or sketch something by hand, scan it and then dress it up in Illustrator and/or Photoshop. For me the bigger improvement in Illustrator CS5 was the addition of adjustable variable stroke widths, controls over arrow heads and dashed lines and more graphics tablet oriented drawing tools (like the bristle brush) to give vector-based artwork a more natural feel. It lessens to need to draw/paint something by hand and scan/trace the results.

Hudechrome
Known Participant
December 7, 2011

Amateur Hour affected architectural photography way back in the 70's, Not so much the work; architectural photography does require certain skills, but with respect to pricing. Finally, digital did it in. Buy PS and a camera for the firm and send out the junior architect.

Noel Carboni
Legend
December 5, 2011

Bart may be right; for some reason big companies with big user bases seem to take on more of a "we know best and you don't matter" philosophy.  Some might say it's because individual user voices are drowned out in a roar, but I can't imagine anyone screaming support for this particular policy change.  Shareholders, as Bart has mentioned, want profits and payouts; I doubt they know enough to agree in any big way on the details of HOW that can be accomplished.  Just tell them that whatever changes are being made are being made to increase same, and what could they do?

Y'know, all this might have been better received if Adobe had simultaneously announced a price reduction...  If they'd knocked a few hundred dollars off the full sell price (and maybe some off the upgrade price as well), it seems to me people might have ignored the "one version back" upgrade policy change in their zeal to talk about how great Adobe was for making their software more affordable to more users.  Think about it...  WHY do people skip an upgrade?  If an upgrade was half the price, twice as many would upgrade, I suspect.  Then there would be fewer folks to complain over a 1 version back policy change, no?

-Noel

John Waller
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 5, 2011

If they'd knocked a few hundred dollars off the full sell price (and maybe some off the upgrade price as well), it seems to me people might have ignored the "one version back" upgrade policy change in their zeal to talk about how great Adobe was for making their software more affordable to more users.

There's an element of truth to that.

Off topic a little: When the Creative Suites were first introduced in 2003, the rush to get the deeply discounted software was akin to Black Friday.

I remember howls of protest in these forums when people gradually realized that they could not upgrade single components of the Suites. Only Suite to Suite upgrades were (and are) available.

There was nothing new about that policy. It was always part of the Suite deal (pardon the pun). But the low entry price meant many ignored the fine print.

Interestingly, this time around, rather than being viewed as a good deal, the limited-time 20% off CS5.5 offer is being viewed more cynically, primarily due to its poor timing and its clear link to the one-version-back policy - as Kelby points out - I suspect.

Participant
December 5, 2011

Hope Adobe will listen to their users.

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