Skip to main content
Known Participant
April 2, 2014
Answered

Brush strokes become jagged after a few seconds

  • April 2, 2014
  • 13 replies
  • 30985 views

I've tried just about everything to narrow down and eliminate this problem, with no luck.

When I first start PS and paint a line with a simple hard round brush, it's nice and smooth. After about 15 seconds (or 4-5 lines), the lines become jagged.They're not pixely - it's more like what happens if you have smoothing turned off. The effect is more pronounced when I paint zoomed out, as if the input data is constrained to the zoomed out pixel size.

This is not a tablet problem - it happens with the mouse as well.

It does not happen with the lasso selection tool, so it seems limited to the brush tool.

Here's an image showing a series of brushstrokes, going from left to right.  You can see how the stroke quality degrades from the first stroke (on the left) which is nice and smooth, to the strokes on the right which are jagged.  You need to view the image at 100% to see what's happening clearly.

The fact that this problem doesn't appear when I first start the program, then creeps in, is really perplexing!  Once it starts it never goes away.

    Correct answer JJMack

    Trevor, not true!  You need to think about how mouse and stylus input data works to understand that, I'm pretty sure, this is a brush smoothing issue. It's not brush wobble.  It's not jitter.  In fact I think the program is working properly, but the notion of smoothing is kind of unintuitive so we don't always understand how important it is.

    With physical pencil, as you try to draw a smooth line slowly, if the pencil tip moves very slightly, the mark will also do that in exactly the same amount.But with a stylus, a small movement may not register if you have not moved to the next screen pixel, or may register disproportionately if you were already close to the edge of that pixel where a very slight movement (less than a pixel) puts you over the edge.  So you move the equivalent of 1/4 of a pixel, but the stylus jumps a whole pixel, or you move almost a whole pixel (3/4) but the stylus doesn't move at all.  Anyone can see this quite easily for him/herself.   The stylus movement on screen is constrained to the (relatively coarse) grid of screen pixels.  This is why the effect is magnified when painting zoomed out. At 25% the above example would be you move 1/4 of a screen pixel, and the cursor jumps a whole (screen) pixel, which is actually 4 bitmap pixels.

    So for example If you try to paint a vertical line, you will often see something that it looks like this:

    |

      |

    |

    |

    because you didn't move perfectly vertically, staying within one column of (screen) pixels.

    How is PS to know whether you want this, or whether you are really trying to draw a smoothish vertical line?  I say smoothISH because I, for example, do not want a perfect vertical line, but I do want a smooth line, like what would happen with a real pencil or brush.  That's what smoothing takes care of, but in programs like Painter (where it's called "damping") you can set its level, whereas in PS it's just a check box. 

    Damping and smoothing essentially round off the stylus input, so things like the stray bit of line in the above example don't appear.  The same thing happens when you use the shift key to make straight lines - PS only receives the first and last positions of the cursor, then connects them with a smooth line. This is the same as how painting very quickly creates a smoother line - there is simply less granularity, timewise, in the input.  I think that might, ironically, be why this "problem" does not appear right away. When you first start a program stuff is still loading and going on in the background and the stylus input may not have full granularity yet.

    BTW, If I wanted to draw a perfect vertical line I would use the shift key, but that's not how I usually want my work to look. Sometimes I do and it's fine, but typically I want a more "freehand" but smooth quality.

    Thank you all so much for giving ideas on this.  Honestly my best workaround is to rely heavily on "rotate view" so I can make marks more quickly and accurately.


    Then I think you may want to look for something like http://lazynezumi.com/home

    http://rahll.deviantart.com/journal/Lazy-Nezumi-stroke-smoothing-for-Photoshop-408711470

    13 replies

    Participant
    March 21, 2022

    I fixed the problem. I bought a Huion tablet.

    Never solved the problem with Wacom. They keep telling that the problem is not their product.

    Participant
    December 15, 2020

    This is no solution

    Participant
    February 6, 2017

    Same issue and mine is even more jagged.  Using a Wacom Tablet with Windows 8 - just terrible

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 7, 2017

    crystals14348756 wrote:

    Same issue and mine is even more jagged. Using a Wacom Tablet with Windows 8 - just terrible

    Yes, that is looking pretty bad.  Is this a new behaviour?  Can you correlate it to a particular event, upgrade, hardware change etc.?

    The first question when Windows 8.1 or 10 is involved, is are you using Windows Ink or WinTab.  The latter is usually better.

    Re: Use Windows Ink Issue with photshop CC 2015.

    jae.t
    Participating Frequently
    March 18, 2020

    Hi everyone,

     

    This is my first time here so please pardon me if this fix has already been posted! I think this particular fix was simple and overlooked. 

     

    Firstly, i am a digital painter working in the game industry and had just upgraded my computer to a high powered workstation laptop for home and installed the latest drivers for a wacom cintiq 22HD (DTK-2200), latest photoshop 2020 and running Windows 10.  These 3 probably fight with each other and will continue to do so in the future.  My previous sucessful photoshop painting build (at work) was running photoshop 2017 (no longer available though their suscription service) with a windows 7 machine, wacom driver from 2017.  It was light and fast, with no jagged lines or lag.  It had the PSUserConfig text file hack to bypass windows ink. But back to my new home setup, this was the result of the latest hardware and software. 



    I uninstalled and reinstalled PS, wacom drivers maybe 30 times trying out different older versions and trying all kinds of combinations of the two.  After scouring dozens of webpages and youtube fix videos a few webpages led me to use command prompt and registry editor to muck with computer settings.  This turned out to be a nightmare.  I gave up, accepted the use of windows ink and those annoying alt, ctrl and shift popups when the key was held and attempted to work.  Even with windows ink on, it's still almost impossible, the pressure sensitivity was all off. 

     

    I was totally about to give up when i came across a simple youtube fix.  Could it possibly be that simple?  Under brush settings   there is a smoothing option that is now off by default.  Check that box and adjust the settings on the top tool bar, i unchecked the default Stroke catch-up and checked Catch -up on Stroke End, with a smoothing setting of 10%.  You may want to mess with these settings a bit but...VOILA!!  This should give you clean lines!

     

    I hope this helps everyone!

     

     

     

     

    Participating Frequently
    June 2, 2016

    Sometimes Photoshop decides it won't use the high-precision tablet data, and uses Windows screen resolution cursor coordinates instead.

    Update 16.06.01 of Lazy Nezumi Pro has an experimental fix for this!

    https://lazynezumi.com/news#16.06.01

    Participant
    November 14, 2015

    Nice to see some other people are encountering this perplexing issue. It's extremely frustrating, having tried clean driver reinstalls, rolling back to legacy and 6.3.6-3, using LazyNazumi, and the weird behavior of being temporarily fixed when switching to another app. Just a damn shame there's no solutions. Time to use a different program then!

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    November 14, 2015

    Ausdrake wrote:

    Nice to see some other people are encountering this perplexing issue. It's extremely frustrating, having tried clean driver reinstalls, rolling back to legacy and 6.3.6-3, using LazyNazumi, and the weird behavior of being temporarily fixed when switching to another app. Just a damn shame there's no solutions. Time to use a different program then!

    But isn't a Cintiq thing?   Least ways, the more you Google, the more frustrated Cintiq users you seem to find.  All I can say is thank goodness LNP works with Windows, and I feel bad for Mac users who can't use it.  No prizes for guessing which stroked used LNP below.

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    November 14, 2015

    OK, I just emailed Guillaume, and no surprise, he replied straight back.  Not good news for Cintiq jitter or Mac users and LNP I am afraid.

    Hi Trevor,

    The thread you replied to is about Photoshop's jitter bug, which can happen with or without LNP installed.
    From my investigations, that bug is entirely Photoshop's fault, and they refuse to even acknowledge it.

    And regarding a Mac version. Believe me, I would love the extra sales... it's just not something I can do right now.

    Regards,
    Guillaume

    Participant
    July 9, 2015

    Hi all

    I use Intuos 5 Pro medium tablet. Latest driver 6.3.11-4

    Only tempolary fixs when jittering happen is just switch to other program and switch back to PS that's all.

    Or If you installed LazyNazumi just pull the panel up and jitter will gone for a while.
    I checked evertime jittering occur  this method will work perfectly.
    And Yes it's no matter are you using LazyNazumi or not this jitter will happen sometime. may be  a few second.
    or may be long last around 10 minutes
    I did test to revert wacom driver to 6.3.6-3 , this driver seem to has a very rare to happen jitter.


    Sorry for my bad English anyway but I would like to share my method.

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    July 9, 2015
    Participant
    July 9, 2015

    Yes right now I'm using latest wacom driver 6.3.11-4

    I tried roll back to legacy 6.3.6-3 , but the jittering will not 100 % fixed It will eventually happen again and

    yes switching to other program and back to PS  will work whatever driver are using.
    And since  6.3.6-3 not 100 % fixed ( for me ) but It 's very rare to happen compared to 6.3.11-4
    So I try to stay with 6.3.11 from now , I guess the problem is from PS itself not from the hardware driver.

    Known Participant
    June 19, 2015

    Having the EXACT same problem.

    Photoshop CC 2015, Lazy nezumi on/off - doesn't matter. Happens with mouse and pen.

    Zooming in to 100%+ seems to ease the issue, I would assume it doesn't handle interpolation data when drawing on a zoomed-out canvas (which you would normally do for high-res artwork)!

    FIX PLZ!

    Windows 7 x64, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2660v2, Nvidia GeForce GTX 780, 32GB RAM.

    Herbert2001
    Inspiring
    October 16, 2014

    I think this erratic behaviour is caused by the lack of any stroke smooth options in Photoshop. I recall that Photoline displayed similar issues, especially when drawing with thin lines on a zoomed out canvas: it would have to interpolate between positions, and would do so quite badly, by introducing jaggies and rough kinks.

    After introducing stroke smoothing options, all the issues went away. It is a joy to draw black thin strokes in Photoline now with my Wacom. Even zoomed out in extreme on a large high-res canvas results in beautiful curves.

    Mange Studio/Clip Studio, Krita, and even Gimp also offer identical stroke smoothing functionality - and it shows in the quality of especially ink strokes.

    You can tell Photoshop has issues by doing this simple test:

    - open an A4 document at 800ppi (6614x9354px).

    - select a 1px simple brush

    - zoom out to 8.3%.

    - draw circles and curves at a reasonably fast speed.

    When you zoom in, this is what you will see in Photoshop:

    Notice the kinks and sharp corners. Also many jaggies. Basically, the strokes are not smooth at all, and look quite abysmal. This is caused by interpolation errors introduced.

    Now compare that result with this one:

    Nice lines, drawn under identical circumstances in Photoline - EXCEPT for the fact that I actually sped up my strokes 2-3 times compared to the speed I used in Photoshop!!! Just goes to show the difference - and this from an application that does not focus on drawing at all. In Krita and Clip Studio/Manga Studio also no problems with this. As you can tell by glancing at the two examples, stroke smoothing is essential to achieve proper interpolation.

    And that is what Photoshop lacks, and it causes issues in line quality. I never do any line work in Photoshop, honestly. Without stroke smoothing control it just is not an option.

    Participating Frequently
    October 15, 2014

    I have the same problem. it comes and goes as I work. and it's quite frustrating while working with fine lines.

    the only way to make it go away for the time being is shift from PS to another app and switch back (it'll be gone for awhile).

    I'm a professional illustrator, working on several machines with win7pro 64bit - HP Workstation Z420 with 32GB, asus HD7850 xeon etc. and HP EliteBook 8460p with 8GB ...

    and I don't think a resolution/ar, stroke size , GPU or anything else has anything to do with this problem. it's essential photoshop related bug and is recognized by all artists working closely with clean' lines. other programs like PaintTool SAI, Autodesk SketchBook and etc does not have this issue. switching wacom drivers, windows updates and etc won't solve this.

    P.S. the quality of PS strokes has well known issues for centuries now, and haven't been fixed:
    http://youtu.be/T1OsByPscuI

    ConceptArt.org | Art Sketchbooks, Wacom, and Art Forum (you'll have to read along to get it right)
    etc..

    this is the reason why most ppl use manga studio or other programs for line / ink work till now. and only do the editing / effects in PS

    Participant
    July 3, 2014

    FIXED!!!!!!

    by rolling back my driver to 6.2.w5 (btw wacom Asia's site is easier to navigate for this sort of thing)

    so relieved, I don't even care that I ended up buying a new stylus in the process. >.> I'll set them up with different pressure curves or something, the older one is rattly anyway, I need to get a back up.

    so happy.