Is there more than one Pantone Process Blue C?

[jillo10791090]

My client chose Pantone Process Blue C as their logo color and we are having a hard time matching the color on a business card. I'm used to using PMS colors with numbers (ex.PMS 7461C), is there more than one definition of Proces Blue C? Why doesn't it have a color # like other Pantone Colors? I apologize in advance, I've always struggled with color settings and color values.  Thank you!

[Peru Bob]

I've moved this from the Using the Community forum (which is the forum for issues using the forums) to the Photoshop forum so that proper help can be offered.

[jane-e]

@jillo10791090 

Yes, there is a Pantone Process Blue C 

https://www.pantone.com/connect/PROCESS-BLUE-C

If you want the definition in RGB, CMYK, or Hexadecimal, go to the Pantone link (above), then in the middle where it says "Looking for the RGB, CMYK, Hex value?", click the link to visit "Pantone Connect".

Why isn't it named like most Pantone colors? That's a question for Pantone! 😊 There is a Contact Us link at the bottom of the webpage.

Jane

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

How are you printing the card--with actual spot colors OR converted to process?

Are you sure the printer is not using straight cyan? Sometimes cyan was referred to as blue by "old timers" (and magenta was sometimes called red).

Here is info on Pantone Process Blue:

https://encycolorpedia.com/0085ca

https://www.color-name.com/process-blue.color

Note: I do not know how up to date these sites are.

[jillo10791090]

Good questions, David and yes, my proof from the printer does look like straight Cyan so I will ask the printer about this! And, I looked up the CMYK values on color-name.com and it says: 100, 15, 0, 6. Whereas when I am in my Illustrator file and I click on the logo using Process Blue, the  CMYK values in the Color panel show 100, 35.8, 7.48, .07.  Why so different!?

@jane-e - Pantone Connect needs a paid subscription to get the color values. 😞

I don't understand why CMYK and RGB values are so different for Process Blue depending on where you look up the info. 

[Test Screen Name]

CMYK values differ wildly according to the press/paper or printer. They are absolutely not a fixed reference. Unfortunately, the web is full of web sites made by people who don't understand this. Don't trust any of them, because they are just giving you useless numbers. This includes Pantone, who should be ashamed of including CMYK values on that page - but their customers demand it, even if it is wildly inconsistent...

To work with CMYK you need to know the exact output that will be used, and tell the apps to use it as an ICC profile. Of course, ideally you'd use a spot colour - which is ink in a bucket, not a mixture of C,M,Y, K. This is not something a printer will do without detailed negotation.

[jillo10791090]

Thank you. I feel a little better about being confused by all these sites! I've given the printer the Pantone Process Blue and I was assuming he would use it as a spot color but I will verify with them. Can you please clarify what you mean by the 'exact output that will be used, and tell the apps to use it as an ICC profile' I'm not familiar with ICC profiles. Sorry, I'm really green on this topic but I'm trying to learn! 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

To add to @Test Screen Name 's advice, Pantone refines their CMYK mixes for solid colors over time as press conditions/accuracy improves. So old guides might have old numbers--they will be close but not as accurate as new guides. (That's why I used a disclaimer on the sites I referenced.)

Also, in the "old days" we use to say you could only match about 30% of solid colors to any accuracy in CMYK (depending on how fussy you are). That number is higher today, but some solid colors just can't be matched in CMYK. 

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

There's one Pantone Process Blue, however, it depends on the ink density and substrate as to its appearance.

L*a*b* based measurements, or better yet, spectral reflectance measurements provide a static, unambiguous, device independent reference... Relative to a given substrate white point and coating.

The numbered Pantone colours are historically mixed from differing parts or quantities of 13 basic inks. Printers use a formula guide telling them how many parts of different base inks are required to mix a given numbered ink colour. PANTONE Process Blue is a base colour, the C stands for the colour appearance on Coated stock. A printer can also purchase a premixed numbered ink.

Pantone currently use 18 base inks to mix other numbered inks:

https://www.pantone.com/articles/color-fundamentals/understanding-different-color-spaces

https://www.ballanddoggett.com.au/brands/pantone-inks/

[jillo10791090]

Thank you, Stephen. Did you have a suggestion regarding LAB colors, or is this just some 'good to know'? 🙂 My file is set to use lab colors defined by the book manufacturer. 

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

It is “good to know” from an educational point of view, so that you can better understand (if you knew all this you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place).

Specifics?

L47 -33a -53b... Subject to the original measurement conditions, which may not be what you are printing. For example, if your substrate has a darker white point, you'll have issues with the lighter L47 target. You could then print with lesser ink density to try to account for the darker substrate, but then the colour may be off in the a or b measurements.

That is the source defination, but how the final colour ends up depends on the process.

Are you printing spot colour plate/ink on an analogue printing press?

Are you printing Lab based spot colour on a digital device using CMYK and possibly other colours?

Are you converting a Lab based spot color to CMYK and printing on a digital device using CMYK and possibly other colours?

[jillo10791090]

Thank you, I appreciate this education! I will bring these questions to the printer and hopefully come up with a good solution.