Photoshop CS4 is a disaster

[_ProArtist_]

I'm am just at a loss of words.

What a mess. It could not be any slower. What were you thinking Adobe?

You ripped apart the code just to add GPU support for what? To provide worse performance?

Make sure you DL the demo first... CS4 is a disaster.

The latest hardware cant even run it smoothly... Dont tell me its graphic drivers.

[PECourtejoie]

iVan, so you had a slow photoshop CS4 in Vista 64 bits oem (SP1?) from HP, I guess, then installed a 32 bits version of the nVidia drivers, and it works flawlessly.
Ditto with a "standard" Vista 64 bits SP1, and what videocard driver in that case?

[Hudechrome-sd9sPI]

As Russel points out, there are still obstacles in the path that may trip up others, even if Ivan gets it up and running. I got mine up and running by ignoring the messages that I have 11 errors in the Download that now appear to be non-issues, but how do I know for sure? The two systems (one with no errors) run essentially identical. In fact the Dell, which had no errors, is slower than the one with errors, but it always has been slower.

These problems should be rarer than lipstick on a bear's butt, however, as Barry has suggested, they aren't.

I also want to thank Ivan for his persistence and for keeping us informed. :-)

[_iVan_B__]

Hi everyone,

To answer your questions, there were a number of other steps I did in between, but in short I had a fairly new installation of Vista 64 Home Premium (OEM) with a 64 bit nvidia 8800 GT driver and Photoshop was slow. That being said, while OS WAS a new installation, I also had a ton of other stuff (both hardware and software) installed along with it. Tried flashing BIOS - no luck.

Then, through a turn of events, I ended up with a 32 bit Vista Home Premium with a 32 bit nvidia 8800 GT driver. Short of having that driver, Vista was clean as a whistle; I didn't even have the LAN and audio drivers on. Installed Photoshop - bang! Fast.

Then, since I had no clean Vista 64 Home Premium DVD, I found a download (must stress it's legal, or someone is going to get on my case - I know it). And while I was DLing it, I thought I'd go to play, and install Vista 64 Home Premium from the (dirty) OEM partition image. Sure it has bloatware, but I had time to kill and I was curious. It should be noted that this image had drivers for almost all hardware I have in the machine (no card reader). Installed Photoshop and it's running fast.

In all cases above I made sure OpenGL checkbox was on, and I used the same doc size every time with same settings to do the test.

In all cases I had 8GB of RAM loaded, so that's kosher too.

So, right now, it would seem that it's either a newer driver for a piece of hardware I have, or another piece of software.

My decision at this point is to take my downloaded Vista 64 Home Premium and load it using the key on a computer box. Crapware-free! Then create a hard drive image, install Photoshop and run the test. I expect it to run fine given the results so far.

Then I'll repeatedly cycle through creating a hard drive image, installing next driver or software and installing Photoshop to test it 'till it fails. I know it will, since I will eventually end up with the same configuration I had when it would fail every time.

When it fails, I'll note what piece of code made a difference, and load the very first image I created. Then I'll load the offending code and check if it craps out when that's the only thing installed before Photoshop.

And then I'm planning to continue up the ladder to test other software 'till I get everything on my machine. I want to make sure there aren't other things that might also make it slow.

Thanks for the word of support guys, you are the ones keeping me going.

[_Russell_Proulx_]

> In all cases I had 8GB of RAM loaded

Just fyi I had an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard (during the beta testing) that could not use 8GB RAM no matter what I did to it. Intel even sent me a newer REV replacement board and it was just as bad. Vista64 would hang, apps would stagger along (not just CS4) and I ended up concluding that the 975 chipset was just not up to doing it. I got an Asus P5E-WS-Pro and it's workes flawlessly. I think CS4 still has some issues that we'll have to wait to be resolved with a 'dot' release. But all the Open GL stuff works with a cheapie Sapphire/Radeon HD2400.

You might try the system with 2-GB RAM installed with Vista64 to see if it improves things. If it does then your system is simply not working properly with the RAM and no brand of RAM will change things if it's a motherboard limitation.

Most 64bit apps don't push the RAM as much as CS4 will, so you'll expose issues that are not evident when performing less demanding tasks.

Russell

[Hudechrome-sd9sPI]

Google ram testing software for utilities that do this without painful cut and try ops.

I am not at all convinced that taking code out of sequence and introducing it at some other place arbitrarily determined will work to give answers. There are dll's and Registry entries that can generate dependencies. But see what happens. If mine runs without all the code, well then...!

[_ProArtist_]

Russell, I have a d975XBX2 "Bad Axe 2" board and its running 8 GB ram perfectly. I use the ram mostly for 3D work and i push ram usage a lot and have no problem at all.

Its possible you had a ram that just didnt like the board or had a defect.

[_iVan_B__]

Russell,

I think you may have misunderstood me; I got the problem fixed, my system is running as it should now. I was able to resolve the issue AND speed up my overall performance. At this point I'm not sure if I could improve things by trying to remove RAM sticks, but thank you for your input (it's always good to know what one might expect).

However, I still don't know what caused the problem in a first place

So what I'm doing now is loading things back, one by one, to recreate and identify the problem.

Earlier we ran the machine through a full systems test; RAM, MoBo, hard drives, all the cards, etc. Turns out that the power supply was crap and we changed it. The guy @ the shop swore that it can make a dif with regards to speed. While skeptical about that statement I decided to get a better power supply anyway. However, that didn't solve the issue as expected (had my hopes up for a moment).

What eventually did solve the issue was a full format and installation of OS with nothing but the latest video card driver. I didn't even load the sound card drivers the first time I did it.

Since then I have reformatted my hard drive several times as the first breakthrough occurred with Vista 32 as opposed 64, and the second was with HP factory-shipped image. Photoshop CS4 worked flawlessly every time. However, I don't want that stuff that HP ships their machines with, so I got a clean Vista 64 Home Premium (legal), and that's what I'm using now.

Since I eliminated HP bloatware as being part of the problem, I can now start building a nice clean image from scratch. CS4 worked fine with all that junk installed after a full format.

I appreciate everyone's input and I'll report as things develop. Once I got this figured out I'll write a full report (it won't be short, I can promise you that).

[_R_Basham_]

ProArtist,

I have the D975XBX2 board with 4gb currently and want to go to 8gb. Since I have read several comments about this particular board not liking 8gb, would you mind sharing the type of memory that you are having success with. I am running the Q6700 processor.

Thanks,

[Guest]

Ivan,

So when you went on line and activated your Vista 64 bit download with a OEM serial number that was assigned to your OEM Windows software, Windows activated?

[_Russell_Proulx_]

> I have a d975XBX2 "Bad Axe 2" board and its running 8 GB ram perfectly.

Well I tried everything including a special order of Crucial RAM modules which were the only 2GB sticks on the Intel tested RAM for this board, and it would not run stable. That was after failing with Kingston RAM.

Intel sent me a new Rev mobo it too was not stable. Numerous calls to and from Intel failed to resolve the issue so I just gave up. The Asus board worked 1st time, no problemo. You are using Photoshop CS4 64bit?

Russell

[_iVan_B__]

David,

Aw man! I got through the full installation with all the drivers and settings just right when I read you post. So I wobbled back to my computer (which never prompted me to validate so far) and manually ran the validation.

Dagnabit!

I guess you can figure what happened then.

Back to the restore partition it is. Good thing I saved the image of the entire hard drive.

I thunk all Vista disks should be the same as long as its the same version of OS. Obviously you have an idea what happened here, and Id like to hear about it. Care to enlighten?

At this pace I'll be done after CS5 is out...

[BobLevine]

Call Microsoft at the number on your screen after the activation denial.
I've done this in the past and with different installation media and it
got a new activation code in about 5 minutes.

Bob

[Guest]

>Call Microsoft at the number on your screen after the activation denial. I've done this in the past and with different installation media and it got a new activation code in about 5 minutes.

ditto. it's a pita reading off numbers to them and copying them back, but it works.

[Guest]

just for some background, i have an original version of XP Pro. no service pack. won't install on a pcie system at all. just bombs out. i downloaded a full copy with sp3 slipstreamed in from MSDN and was denied activation when entering the serial i got with the original disc. got a rep on the phone immediately (at about 11:00 pm my time) and the whole deal took about 5 minutes, including my explaining what i'd done (formatted and install an MSDN version rather than the copy on my disc).

[Guest]

Your OEM version preloaded on your computer generates code numbers that match your motherboard, CPU and other things installed on your computer. That version can only be used on that computer. Plus there is code that identifies OEM from Retail copies.

From what I have read in the past people have used their OEM numbers for "like" vista items in 32 bit and 64 bit. So in other words you can't upgrade from your Vista home premium to Ultimate. Problem being with OEM factory installed is that the factory is the owner thus the trouble shooter.

Gets worse if you build a system and buy a OEM disk. It may be cheaper however you are now the owner and troubleshooter. Microsoft won't help you. Buy regular retail and microsoft will help you.

So when you installed your downloaded software windows was looking for a number not associated with OEM. I just assume this because the software you downloaded might have a retail code associated with it? Thus it locked you out and you should have gotten a screen telling you to activate on line or call in? Maybe so.

I won't keep writing as you can go to microsoft website or other sites to read about it.

Like Robert wrote: Call Microsoft up and tell them what you are doing as it won't hurt to try.

[Guest]

>lus there is code that identifies OEM from Retail copies.

good point. mine is a retail copy. there might just be an issue with an oem copy, where the hardware subsidizes the sw purchase (supposedly).

still worth the call anyway to try.

[Guest]

Microsoft will help with OEM (Dell) OS installations.

[_iVan_B__]

Thanks for the reply David, that makes sense.

I have never had a pleasure of installing the OS from a disk other than what came with a computer; I thought it would be the same as long as the OS the computer and the code are all the same.

b STATUS UPDATE:

OK, back to the issue; I installed Vista and all the hardware I use with the latest drivers to go with it. I installed Photoshop, checked the settings and ran the usual test. She's running fast.

I think I have successfully eliminated any hardware/drivers as the issue. Unless, of course, I had an old driver for something unrelated that was causing the problem in the past. Thatd be a bummer, but I think I have a way to figure that out as well.

The next step is to start installing programs back. I'll install three or four at the time and then install Photoshop to test it; that way I'll narrow it down faster. If I were to do it one at the time, the in-between imaging would take forever.

The way I see it, two things can happen. One, I'll install the offending software(s) and figure out what it is. That's good news for everyone.

The alternative is that I won't be able to reproduce the problem. Luckily I kept the image of my system when I couldn't get it to work no matter what I tried (at this point I have something in the order of a dozen images all in all). So if I can't replicate the issue, I'll revert to the time Photoshop was slow, and then check the drivers. If that doesn't do it; I'll start uninstalling stuff 'till it does work.

Something's gotta budge sooner or later.

[Guest]

There's job for you in San Jose!

[_iVan_B__]

As a matter of fact, why dont I get a show of hands to see which software should I try first. Any of you with the slow Photoshop use any of the following? Im curious to see if there is a something that shows up with consistency across the board:

Acronis True Image v.11 (Im currently running it from a boot disc, so its not installed yet)
Wacom tablet
Nero 8
Kaspersky anti-virus
Google Earth
Office 2007
Audacity
Daemon Tools 4 lite (64)
Spyder Pro3
Diskkeeper 2008
Efficient WMA MP3 converter
DNG converter
HP Photosmart printer D7260
Logiteck quickcam
TeamViewer
APC uninterrupted power supply ES 750
WinRAR 3.something
Garmin Mapsource
And several browsers (IE, Netscape, Opera, Safari and Firefox)

I dont recall what versions were for most of these programs, and I may have missed a few, but its a start.

[_Erbs_Bischof_]

Wacom Tablet
Kasperski
Google Earth
IE

Highly appreciate your efforts!!
Erbs

And my DX diag. to complete the picture:

Time of this report: 12/4/2008, 15:20:20
Machine name: ACERASPIRE9920G
Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.080917-1612)
Language: German (Regional Setting: German)
System Manufacturer: Acer
System Model: Aspire 9920
BIOS: Ver 1.00PARTTBLt
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7700 @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
Memory: 3070MB RAM
Page File: 1438MB used, 16534MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 10
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 6.00.6001.18000 32bit Unicode
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 8600M GT
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0407&SUBSYS_01291025&REV_A1
Display Memory: 1779 MB
Dedicated Memory: 499 MB
Shared Memory: 1279 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: PnP-Monitor (Standard)
Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll
Driver Version: 7.15.0011.8070 (English)
DDI Version: 10
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 11/18/2008 13:28:00, 6062080 bytes

[hhansard]

Nero
Kaspersky
Office
Spyder Pro
Diskkeeper
DNG
APC 1500
Garmin
All browsers

[Walter Elias]

Definitely Nero 8. It can play havoc with many things. Try it first.

[hhansard]

iVan,

Not sure when (read as if) you sleep

Following you thread, I cant quite piece-together exactly what HW and SW configurations you built.

It appears that some combinations of video card/driver and motherboard failed, and you worked to get one HW config to succeed. And at this point, you are tweaking the SW install? Forgive me if I have this wrong, because it sounds like a lot of work I believe that detailing the HW/driver configurations that failed and the one that succeeded would be of great help to the Engineers at Adobe.

Also, many motherboards have tuning options. For instance, I could not use hyper threading for a six months because my graphics card freaked-out. I believe one poster also mentioned memory tuning options.

One other thing, do you have any fancy disk interface cards. Both my SCSI and FC cards have independent BIOS code that interferes with some motherboard operations. These BIOSs had to be jumpered-out to increase my system stability.

Get some sleep,

Hugh

[Guest]

Ivan,

Office 2007 was my 1st install after ps cs4. No problems what so ever.

Also I noticed you had a wacom listed. I just read in another thread where someone installed new x64 drivers from the wacom website and they they work.

Glad to hear Microsoft will help people will Dell OEM. I remember 4 years ago when I had a Dell and called Microsoft support they refered me to Dell.