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Trains1985
Inspiring
January 27, 2021
Question

Problem with PS file vs. any other file format

  • January 27, 2021
  • 2 replies
  • 1268 views

Hello,

 

I am having a terrible time working with a dark-colored photo. The photo looks great when Photoshop, but when printing or saving it as ANY non-PS form, the lighter colors look significantly more saturated and the darker colors look quite a bit darker and muddy. 

 

My current workflow is a NEC color-critical monitor as well as an Epson 3880 printer. 

 

The lighter photo was taken using my phone and the darker one was a jpeg-formed copy of the the native PS file. The one taken with my phone (lighter one) is much more accurate to my PS version.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Sand Patch

 

 

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2 replies

davescm
Community Expert
davescmCommunity Expert
Community Expert
January 31, 2021

I've posted this before but have a read through it, it may help your understanding :

 

Colour Management simple explanation

Digital images are made up of numbers. In RGB mode, each pixel has a number representing Red, a number representing Green and a Number representing Blue. The problem comes in that different devices can be sent those same numbers but will show different colours. To see a demonstration of this, walk into your local T.V. shop and look at the different coloured pictures – all from the same material.

To ensure the output device is showing the correct colours then a colour management system needs to know two things.

1. What colours do the numbers in the document represent? 
This is the job of the document profile which describes the exact colour to be shown when Red=255 and what colour of white is meant when Red=255, Green = 255 and Blue =255. It also describes how the intermediate values move from 0 through to 255 – known as the tone response curve (or sometimes “gamma”).
Examples of colour spaces are (Adobe RGB1998, sRGB IEC61966-2.1)
With the information from the document profile, the colour management system knows what colour is actually represented by the pixel values in the document.

  1. What colour will be displayed on the printer/monitor if it is sent certain pixel values?
    This is the job of the monitor/printer & paper profile. It should describe exactly what colours the device is capable of showing and, how the device will respond when sent certain values.
    So with a monitor profile that is built to represent the specific monitor (or a printer profile built to represent the specific printer, ink and paper combination) then the colour management system can predict exactly what colours will be shown if it sends specific pixel values to that device.

    So armed with those two profiles, the colour management system will convert the numbers in the document to the numbers that must be sent to the device in order that the correct colours are displayed.

So what can go wrong :

  1. The colours look different in Photoshop, which is colour managed, to the colours in a different application which is not colour managed.
    This is not actually fault, but it is a commonly raised issue. It is the colour managed version which is correct – the none colour managed application is just sending the document RGB numbers to the output device regardless without any conversion regardless of what they represent in the document and the way they will be displayed on the output device.

  2. The colour settings are changed in Photoshop without understanding what they are for.
    This results in the wrong profiles being used and therefore the wrong conversions and the wrong colours.
    If Photoshop is set to Preserve embedded profiles – it will use the colour profile within the document.

  3. The profile for the output device is incorrect.
    The profile should represent the behaviour of the device exactly. If the wrong profile is used it will not. Equally if the settings on the device are changed in comparison to those settings when the profile was made, then the profile can no longer describe the behaviour of the device. Two examples would be using a printer profile designed for one paper, with a different paper. A second example would be using a monitor profile but changing the colour/contrast etc settings on the monitor.
    The monitor profile is set in the operating system (in Windows 10 that is under Settings>System>Display >Advanced) which leads to a potential further issue. Operating system updates can sometimes load a different monitor profile, or a broken profile, which no longer represents the actual monitor.

 

 

Colour management is simple to use provided the document profile is correct, always save or export with an embedded profile, and the monitor/printer profile is correct. All the math is done in the background.

 

I hope that helps

Dave

    T
    Trains1985Author
    Inspiring
    January 31, 2021

    I thank all of you for taking the effort in helping me with my monitor/printer issue. This is hugely informative to me. Please bare with me and my total illiteracy on the aspects of color management.

     

    Okay, let me start trying to get myself out of this mess.

     

    First, let me start of on C.pfaffenbichler's recommendation. When I made the Status Bar Document Profile, it changed the text to say, "Untagged RGB (8bpc).

     

    Then I changed the Working Space to Adobe1998, however after I had closed the Color Setting window and opened it up again the RGB had defaulted to sRGB IEC61966-2.1. Is that to be expected? 

     

    Also, will I end-up needing to go into my SpectraViewII software for any reason?

     

    Sand Patch

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    davescm
    Community Expert
    davescmCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 31, 2021

    "I changed the Working Space to Adobe1998, however after I had closed the Color Setting window and opened it up again the RGB had defaulted to sRGB IEC61966-2.1."

     

    Did you click OK or just close the dialogue window?

     

    If your file is untagged then you will need to assign a profile. Which profile to assign is anyone's guess - try sRGB and if that looks wrong try Adobe RGB

    In color settings I like to check "Missing Profiles Ask When Opening" as that way I get a warning on opening an image with no embedded profile and have to choose a profile for it there and then.

     

    If you suspect your monitor profile is broken then you would use Spectraview to make a new one, but at this stage there is nothing to indicate that. I do though recalibrate and make new profiles for my monitors every 200 hours of use.

     

    Dave

     

     

    c.pfaffenbichler
    Community Expert
    c.pfaffenbichlerCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 27, 2021

    For starters you saved the jpg without embedding the Profile. 

    What was its original Color Space? sRGB or something else? 

     

    Please set the Status Bar to »Document Profile« and post screenshots of the layered image and the jpg open in Photoshop. 

    T
    Trains1985Author
    Inspiring
    January 27, 2021

    Thank you for responding.

     

    First, I'm a little bit confused on how you say I save the jpeg file without embedding the profile. Are you referring to the screenshots, or my actual file?

     

    Second, I seemed to be using the Adobe RGB 1998 setting.

     

    And third, here is a screenshot of the current color settings. It looks like the RGB was set to the color critical monitor I'm using.

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    D FosseCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 31, 2021

    Sorry to put it bluntly, Trains, but you have misunderstood this completely. You do not set the monitor profile as working RGB, ever, under any circumstances. It kills color management.

     

    Do not mix up document profile and monitor profile! They are entirely different things, serving entirely different purposes. You need both, and they need to be in the correct place.

     

    The embedded document profile is a standard color space like sRGB, Adobe RGB etc.

     

    The monitor profile is set at system level, and managed by the operating system. Photoshop loads it at startup, and uses it in a standard profile conversion from the document profile and into the monitor profile. These corrected numbers are sent to screen, on the fly, as you work.

     

    When the calibration>profiling process is finished, the calibration software sets the monitor profile up automatically. Don't do anything!

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