Proof colors with Fiji Archive glossy

[marcofranchini]

I want to print my image with Fuji Archive glossy paper. When I 'color proof' my original image in Ps, the result is far from the original. I proceed with additional adjustments (Levels, HSL, White Balance, Selective Colot, etc) to bring the 'color proof' version closer to the original, but it does not work.

I have made a test print (of the 'color proof' image corrected with the adjutments) but the result is not satisfactory.

What else can i do?

Is there a 'standard' procedure of additional adjutments to bring the 'color proof' version similar to the original image?

(PS: With other images that i have printed on the same paper, the above mentioned adjstments were effective; but this specific image has just a limited range of colors (blues/light blues with white rays) and lots of luminosity: the 'Color Proof' version loses all the luninosity, and when i try to bring it back the hue turns to green.)

Thank you for your help

[D Fosse · Accepted solution]

Sounds like it's out of gamut in the print profile; the color can't be reproduced by the printer inks on that paper.

The whole point of proofing is to show precisely this, so that you know in advance. Some compensation may be possible, but if it's out of gamut, it's out of gamut.

[NB, colourmanagement]

@marcofranchini As @D Fosse wrote, it seems the colours you are wanting to print may be outside the printer gamut. Photoshop's "view/proof setup/gamut warning" can show you areas with gamut issues.

Ink on paper can only go so far in saturation of colour and an onscreen image can far exceed ink on paper capabilities. 

Of course, for both print and softproof accuracy,  you need a media/printer profile specific to the actual paper/media you are using to print. 

I'd recommend you keep an eye on the proof setup/gamut warning when colour correcting images, if they are destined for this printer and paper/media, then it's, sadly, a hiding to nothing to increase saturation beyond the ink/paper capability. 

I hope this helps

neil barstow colourmanagement - adobe forum volunteer,

colourmanagement consultant & co-author of 'getting colour right'

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[marcofranchini]

Dear All,

Thank you for your kind answers.

This matter is beyond my knowledge and capacity, but i think i understand the bottom line: it cant be printed, not as it shows on screen.

Not sure what to do at this point: that is not "any" image for me, it is an underwater photo of the depth of the sea, with noon sunlight, that i shot.

A special light phenomenon that i have noted only in that specific location, in the middle of the Mediterranean sea.

It is a paricularly dear image, to me.

Thank you anyway.

Marco.

[marcofranchini]

Dear All,

Thank you for your kind answers.

This matter is beyond my knowledge and capacity, but i think i understand the bottom line: it cant be printed, not as it shows on screen.

Not sure what to do at this point: that is not "any" image for me, it is an underwater photo of the depth of the sea, with noon sunlight, that i shot.

A special light phenomenon that i have noted only in that specific location, in the middle of the Mediterranean sea.

It is a paricularly dear image, to me.

Thank you anyway.

Marco.

[Conrad_C · Accepted solution]

The others are correct, specifically the blue saturation is so extreme that it is outside the printable gamut of inks, dyes, and papers. Fuji Crystal Archive is a traditional photo paper, right? If so, then it’s limited by the gamut of its color dyes, which is definitely a much smaller gamut than an RGB computer display.

Compounding this challenge is that the uploaded image is mostly blue. But blue is already one of the most difficult colors to reproduce in print, it always has been. Highly saturated blue is even more difficult. 

I made the chart below to show what is going on. It shows various color gamuts, including three print gamuts, and also the image colors plotted against it (the dots). You can see that with a typical natural scene from a camera, most or all colors can be reproduced on larger print gamuts. But if you’re creating a synthetic image, you have to be aware of any target reproduction gamuts (such as Fuji Crystal Archive) in advance, and design your colors so that they are within that gamut. In other words, the following is backwards…

Is there a 'standard' procedure of additional adjutments to bring the 'color proof' version similar to the original image?

By @marcofranchini

…the standard procedure is to edit the image (nondestructively) so that it looks good within the color gamut of the proof preview. For example, creating and editing the image with soft proofing on either all the time, or regularly checked in it so that colors aren’t being created that can’t be printed. Dan Margulis wrote many good books and articles about things like how to tweak correction curves to get the most out of an image under the gamut and luminosity limits of print.

…(blues/light blues with white rays) and lots of luminosity: the 'Color Proof' version loses all the luninosity, and when i try to bring it back the hue turns to green.)

By @marcofranchini

This might be impossible, because of the specific combination of high blue saturation and high luminosity. The problem with high luminosity is that paper can’t be that bright, period. For example, if an image was edited with the display set to a high luminosity (for example, 300 nits or above), and the image white point is set to look fantastic that way, then the luminosity is so high that print can’t reproduce it. The only way the print can be that luminous is if a blindingly high amount of light is pointed at it, because paper can only reflect light, it can’t emit light like a computer display.

For that reason, most print profiles are designed for the level of luminance that can be expected of paper, which is relatively low (think of the level of light reflected by paper under room lighting). To match this, those who edit for print often set their displays to 120 nits or lower. On a current display, that’s half brightness or lower. So, you’ll be more likely to create an image with print-reproducible colors if while editing, you set your display to an appropriately low luminance while also viewing through soft-proofing set up for Fuji Crystal Archive. 

If you’ve seen prints that seem to have saturated colors and high luminosity, what you are really seeing are talented editors using the principles of tone contrast and color contrast to make an image look snappier under the known gamut and luminosity limits of print. And it’s also because you aren’t seeing the reproduction next to the original…if you did, that print you thought was so bright would probably not look so good next to the original.

[NB, colourmanagement]

@Conrad_C That's a great thorough explanation. You put some time into that. 

@marcofranchini I hope you can use the help provided here to enable you to create satisfactory images within the capability of the output medium (printer, ink and paper as defined by an accurate ICC characterisation profile, which you'll use for soft proofing and to enable gamut warning too). Of course you'll have to be working on a properly calibrated and profiled display (in a room with subdued light) for this to work. Also viewing prints under good daylight conditions. 

When you see the gamut warning overlay on your existing images in Photoshop, it doesn’t mean that the output (in this case printed) colour will be entirely different to the original. It does, though meant that it will be significantly changed.

Colour management (conversion from image colour space to output device colourspace) will deal with the out-of-gamut colours as well as it can (the converted result will also depend on what rendering intent you choose).

The gamut warning overlay is useful in that it not only shows you whether you are oversaturating during editing, but also helpfully warns you where to look in your converted image for issues [post conversion**]

(**you can temporarily convert before printing to preview appearance,  sometimes a little more accurately than just by soft proofing).

Note that even when viewing an image that's been converted to the output colourspace, for best onscreen preview, please do invoke soft proofing because that allows you to check "ink black" which generally improves screen to print match.

By default Photoshop maps image black to the blackest point your screen can display. Not to ink black level.

Some users set the screens black level target higher than default to match printed black, thus accommodating this Photoshop limitation. 

I hope this helps

neil barstow colourmanagement - adobe forum volunteer,

colourmanagement consultant & co-author of 'getting colour right'

See my free articles on colourmanagement online