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jjwithers
jjwithers
Inspiring
October 9, 2020
Question

Why is the size/resolution different when using Place Embedded vs making Smart Object manually?

  • October 9, 2020
  • 5 replies
  • 5387 views

If you drag an image (A) into Photoshop onto image (B) where it creates a SO layer, or choose Place Embedded, the file comes in at one size, and indicates 100% when you hit the Transform tool. 

If you open the file (A) up, drag it into document (B) as a normal pixel layer, then convert it to a Smart Object layer, the 100% scale is actually the true resolution relationship betweeen file (A) and File (B). 

 

Why does the Embed function have a complete disconnect to actual resolution relationships between two documents? 

This is a nightmare for dealign with students and entry level Photoshop users who don't know this is happening.  Is it a Bug? 

I can't see how it is logical in any way. 

 

See the attached image for how it changes the resolution, and in this case interpolates way too much in the scaling. 

 

In my opinion, if the Embed function is being used,  and the SO fits into the image it is being embedded in, When you hit command T - you should have the actual percentage/scale of that SO based on it's resolution relationship to the 'host' document.  

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    5 replies

    Bojan Živković11378569
    Bojan Živković11378569
    Community Expert
    October 10, 2020

    @jjwithers "I can't see how it is logical in any way."

    The only logic here is that document can not have two resolutions. You can not have one layer with 96ppi and one above it at 300ppi.

     

    Here is my understanding and explanation:

    What must happen is to match resolutions of object which is placed and parent document. How deed is done? Perhaps worst scenario for many of us, Photoshop is correcting resolution of placed image in background with Resize turned on! If only that is ommited, to change resolution with Resample turned off! That is why you have much smaller of expected image 300ppi placed into parent document which has 96ppi assigned.

    jjwithers
    jjwithersAuthor
    Inspiring
    October 10, 2020

    PPI should be irrevelant. 

     

    This should be based on total number of pixels within each document.  If you have a document that is 4000 pixels wide, and you place an embedded image that is only 1000 pixels wide, then it should come in at 1/4th the size and read 100% when using the transform tool. 


    Instead, the SO comes in at some interpolated larger size that reads 100% when using the transform tool but it is actually more pixels than 1000px across. 

     

    To me, this is an error and can cause a destructive workflow. 

    D Fosse
    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    October 10, 2020

    OK, I'm repeating this for the third time in this thread: it has to be this way for compatibility with Illustrator.

     

    Yes, in Photoshop we should always be thinking in pixels. I say that all the time. But vector smart objects are simply not possible if based on pixels. Hence this special case.

     

    This is one of those things that once you know it, it ceases to be a problem. Smart objects always honor print size, not pixels. It's pretty easy to relate to.

    M
    mukfe5FF4
    New Participant
    October 10, 2020

    please, anyone, help to create create a boll I want to upload on my website.

    D Fosse
    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    October 10, 2020

    It's not a bug. It's how smart objects are defined.

     

    Smart objects honor physical print dimensions, not pixels. In effect, it treats raster images like vector objects. It's done this way for compatibility with vector applications like Illustrator. It's the only possible way to make it work.

     

    Yes, it's counter-intuitive, and yes, it overrides the file's native behavior. Proceed with caution to avoid accidental resampling.

    JJMack
    JJMack
    Community Expert
    October 10, 2020

    And it brother many that Place does this for it not helpful. Users still have to scale the smart object layer created.  The scaling Places does is not useful in most cases. I even removed the Frame Tool from my tool bar and disabled its shortcut for the Frame Tool uses Place and mess up image it will not scale image to fill a frame when place scale the image small then frame area. Adobe told me they will not fix this issue.  "Adobe print pixels sizes should change print print sizes not image sizes". So I removed the frame tool it was not needed in the first place.  Oh there that bad word again PLACE...

    JJMack
    D Fosse
    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    October 10, 2020

    "Adobe told me they will not fix this issue. "

     

    That's because it already works as intended. It has to work this way, or vector smart objects simply wouldn't be possible. Pixel-based smart objects is fine as long as you're within Photoshop only, but there's no way to make it work with Illustrator. It has to be based on size, and resolution/ppi is the only way to translate between them.

     

    JJMack
    JJMack
    Community Expert
    October 10, 2020

    Place may degrade images based of the two Print resolution. However, the Smart object has the actual  image pixels  so you can recover the original image quality by scaling the layer to have the same number of pixels  as the placed in file canvas size.

     

    If the Document you are placing a file into has the same print resolution as the file being  places in and the placed in file canvas size is smaller or equal the the document its being placed into the place in layer will not be degraded the smart object layer pixels will be the same as the file being placed in pixels as will the hardened smart object pixels. 

    JJMack
      jjwithers
      jjwithersAuthor
      Inspiring
      October 10, 2020

      This video explains the error better.  

      A placed embedded SO comes into the master document at nearly double the size, but it states 100%. The interpolation looks terrible. 

      The SO created by putting the content as a layer, and then converting the layer to a SO is accurately showing the resolution without upscale-inerpolation. 

       

      JJMack
      JJMack
      Community Expert
      October 10, 2020

      You are most like using Place editing a document the has print a resolution and are placing in Image Files that have other Print resolution and you do not like or understand the scaling Place is  doing. 

       

      You are also most likely confused by the Photoshop preferences Resize during Place.  Resize During place is not about the scaling  Place does to images.  It just effect smart object that are created larger them the current documents canvas.  Larger smart object layer will be scaled down in size to fit on canvas if resize during place is checked.   

       

      Place is not like Copy Past, duplicate layer or dragging layer between documents.    Place will scale the image based on document and files print resolutions.

       

      For me this is a Problem. IMO Adobe should have implemented Places like Copy Pastes duplicate layer dragging layer between documents. Just let the user scale the new layer for the current documents use.  The users still need to do this with Smart object layers. 

       

      I think someone at Adobe thought that scaling based are print resolution would help user scale the new layer.  If Adobe used some AI to analyze object in the document and object in the smart object they may be able to help with scaling. Scaling based on print pixel sizes has no bearing on image content its just a print size setting.   

       

      The good news is the  harden smart object has your image quality and when you scale the smart object layer you will be scaling from you harden image quality not from the scaled layer image pixels place created.  Always have Place create Smart layers do not let place destroy your image quality.

       

      This should demo that you image quality is not lost that the Object is you image.  Here is an extreme stupid demo.  Here I create a new document that canvas size has the number of Pixels my camera captures.  I'm going to be using this on the web so resolution does not matter  so I set the resolution stupidity to 1.  In my Preferences I check Skip transform during place. I do not want to be brothered by Place's interactive transform. Lets Place create the smart object layer I'll transform the layer if it needs to need be transform. 

       

      It created a 8px by 12px image layer from my raw 8.2MP 300dpi conversion.  The smart Object create has my 8.2MP image it is fine.

      JJMack
        lambiloon
        lambiloon
        Community Expert
        October 10, 2020

        Hi place embed is good for new students as when we use it becomes SO it can be resize easily because it prevents the details, other than we do drag process and do manually .... and this is not bug when switch it off from preferences....regards

        Ali Sajjad / Graphic Design Trainer / Freelancer / Adobe Certified Professional
        jjwithers
        jjwithersAuthor
        Inspiring
        October 10, 2020

        There is no preference that I am aware of that has to do with the resolution of a smart object layer.  

        There is a preference to create a SO when placing, but beginners would have NO idea how to turn that off or what that means. 

        What you are not addressing is the fact that a placed SO layer is not using it's resolution correctly vs a SO layer created after the contents were added as a layer.  

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