P: Support for native full-screen mode on macOS

[hijax_pl]

I must say that full screen apps is a wonderful idea. I can start in such a way some of the apple apps (safari, imail, numbers) - I like switching between them. It will be desirable to enable this option for Ligtroom & Photoshop (both CS and Elements) to behave in similar way under new Mission Control stuff...

[J453]

@doney, it would get complicated/messy to have them coexist and to try to support. We are really hopeful that Apple has more magic up it's sleeve and will continue to enhance OS X full screen mode. We're actually pretty excited about the feature ourselves.

[TheKnightWhoSaysNi]

As a developer I believe this explanation is very reasonable. I also expect Apple to fix full screen mode because as it is now, you can't use your second monitor for anything at all when the first one is in full screen mode. (the second monitor just displays the gray linen pattern).

[J453]

Hi Robert, thanks. We did give the decision a lot of thought. Yup. I agree - I really am hopeful Apple will add more functionality to full screen mode.

[dwarfland]

"Here's the short story: If we replace Photoshop's Full Screen mode with the native 10.7 full screen mode, then our users will loose the following functionality"

hmm, that makes sense, in a a way, but imho it inconveniences the vast amount of users who would really benefit from proper full screen mode — especially MacBook users, for an advanced feature that benefits a few pro users.

i want to bet that the VAST majority of Lightroom users uses it on singlescreen MacBooks (i have a MacBook Air 11", where FullScreen really is *the* way to work) and iMacs.

the problem is that non-Lion-style full screens support, IMHO, is not just a "missing feature", its a major obstacle in using Lightroom on a system where most apps are run in full screen mode — because LR completely refuses to participate in how the rest of the system works. this is not just a minor "ah, would have been nice, but oh well" nitpick, imho.

(i'm mainly concerned for LR; but the same argument does apply to PS).

it would be awesome if you guys could find a compromise, even if it would mean having two full screen modes, or only offering Lion-native full screen mode if only a single display is detected (or exposing a "Use Lion native full screen mode" vs "Use extra display in full screen mode" preference).

i'm *not* holding my breath for Apple changing how full screen works, for you guys.

[TheKnightWhoSaysNi]

Well, Apple would not fix it just for Adobe's sake. The full screen functionality is just broken for multiple screens and they'll have to fix it in general.

[J453]

Sorry for the typo in the official answer. I meant to type "lose" not "loose" but once a reply is commented on I can't edit the reply (part of the policy of GetSat so a user can't change the meaning of a reply after someone's added a comment). I do know the difference. 😉

[dwarfland]

Roberto: fair enough, yes. still, i'm not holding my breath for that to change; it certainly doesn't look like this will change for Mountain Lion

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Thanks for your answer.

The whole 'two full screen modes' thing is confusing, yes. But you have done compromises before (CMD+H, application frame) and I think that this really works for an application that is already aimed at professionals who are pretty competent with computers. The modular UI is a prime example that people like being able to decide how exactly they are going to use their program.

Let's imagine there is a fullscreen tickbox somewhere in preferences. It defaults to Lion fullscreen. There are some possible scenarios that might arise from that:

If I am a causal/semipro user of PS/LR I will be extremely pleased with the fact they can run PS like any other application. "Ah Adobe have finally implemented this. Great!" I would have never been bothered about multiscreen because I would not have the possibility to use multiple monitors anyways.

If I am a beginner, the lack of fullscreen button is imho more confusing then having a preference somewhere which switches between two modes. I would say that for a lot of people no button equals no fullscreen. Yes - WE know there is one. But don't you want to make PS just a little bit more accesible to new users? Learning applications should not be an ordeal. And once you explain you cannot press a button but have to press F to toggle custom fullscreen modes, she will still have a WTF moment like all of us on this forum - why is there no standard fullscreen?

If I am a photographer that travels and is using a Macbook when on the road (which I think is quite a few people) this would also be great.

Now imagine I am a PS/LR user who DOES use multiple monitors. I press fullscreen on my amazing multi monitor setup and *bam* - I lost my screens. I am enraged. This is insane. Why is Adobe abandoning its loyal customers? I search online - "Why did Adobe abandon the original fullscreen mode?"
Luckily it turns out the first result is Adobe Photoshop CS6 online help saying something along the lines of - you can toggle fullscreen modes with this tickbox. I go back, switch it and phew! It's OK. Great. I forget about it in 10 seconds because I have deadlines to meet.

If there was a dialog the first time you go to fullscreen informing you of the possibility - great. If this is done intelligently based on monitors detected - brilliant! (especially great for pros using a macbook for travel but who hook it up to an external monitor when in the studio)...

Ok - I also understand that this will probably not be elegant to code and might cause some mess. But I am paying a very premium price for your product and I think that for a company of Adobe's calibre, this is really not an excuse. I am sure content-aware was not easy to make, but because it serves the user it was implemented. This will serve MANY users. They will love it.

You are saying that this is an Apple problem. Maybe. But there is no sight of different fullscreen implementation in Mountain Lion. That means another year of annoyance and frustration for us - your customer. At least. Please fix this!

[dwarfland]

@artur: 1 thousand times this, yes!

[lmabe10]

Jeffery,

While I'm not a software developer, I believe both of the points could be addressed *somewhat* easily, while still accommodating a large percentage of photoshop users.

1) "The ability to use multiple displays while in fullscreen mode"

This is a good point, however, PS already allows for multiple Full Screen modes as you pointed out. It only seems reasonable that the OSX full screen mode could be another option for the vast majority of us who do not use multiple displays.

2) "The ability to switch between different document windows while in fullscreen mode"

This point is not as cut and dried as you would make it seem. While programmatically not a easy fix, in concept it should be very doable. Each document window could be viewed as a tab at the top. In the event one would like to "break away" a window, that document could *simply* float on top of the others, within the boundaries of Photoshop.

Certainly these solutions have been considered already, and there may be an even better approach, but OSX Full Screen is a desperately lacking feature in some of the most used OSX software for creatives. Adobe is frequently behind the curve in adapting and I fear CS6 will be yet another missed opportunity.

[VorteXLP]

I agree with everyone above. That said, I don't know what the problem really is. As Mac User said, the vast majority of users have an iMac or a MacBook; this means a single screen. Plus it is unbelievably easy to add the fullscreen button as a developer.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Hey guys, how about integrating the fullscreen feature available for applications in Mac OS X Lion into Photoshop CS6 when it's officially released? 😄

[Adam_David_Solley]

Well VLC included it in their preferences - by default they use their own fullscreen mode but if the user wants to use native fullscreen they can change it in the preferences. I don't see why Adobe can do this as they done similar things with the open save dialog boxes, colour pickers and other interface features in the past. I agree with the vast majority here Mission Control fullscreen would be perfect for some peoples workflows - you have such a wide user base surely pleasing both camps wouldn't be too much trouble - where not asking for much?

[PECourtejoie]

It is already difficult to help some users that mix maximized windows and Photoshop "F" full screen mode... I can't imagine if we throw that in the mix.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

> "The ability to switch between different document windows while in fullscreen mode"

The way Pixelmator addressed this issue is they put the native Lion full-screen widget on each document window, so if you have two documents open in Pixelmator, you can zoom one to full screen and leave the other as a window on your desktop, or zoom 'em both to full screen, and each gets their own separate Lion workspace. Then you just swipe between the two workspaces.

Might not be the ideal way to handle it vs. some of the other ideas thrown around, but is definitely the easiest to implement. And might even work better for those that have a small, single screen anyway.

[Adam_David_Solley]

Adobe already have a way to work with multiple documents - it's called tabs in the application frame - all they need to do is make the application frame with tabs the only way to manage documents while in Lion fullscreen mode. Simples!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Well, ideally they should just clean up the whole fullscreen issue. You are right. As of now, it is a massive mess. Honestly, I would really love if instead of giving us 3D and video capabilities (I mean, really, who uses this?) we would get real consistency across all Adobe programs in UI behaviour and shortcuts. Things like getting the apps to work with the full potential of the OS should be right after that on the list.

Instead we get black UI and slightly different crop tool. Awesome...

[Gaerraty]

@artur: Agreed!

[Gaerraty]

Application Frame mode with documents in tabs could be fine and elegant solution.

[VorteXLP]

Adobe, this is what customers want. Enough solutions are offered in this topic. Why even hesitate to put this in?

[Gaerraty]

Advanced 3D and video-editing capabilities are very nice addition.

But – completely consistent UI look, shortcuts and behavior with OS-native (both OS X 10.7 / 10.8 and Windows 8) functionalities would really be the big bomb.

[Lee Jay]

Perhaps because about a thousand other things are more important, and therefore higher priority?

[VorteXLP]

@lee Jay: Those are already finished. This option would take just a few lines of code.

[Gaerraty]

Surely. It would be odd if there weren't anything else to do.

I'm glad that there is discussion about this topic.

[Gaerraty]

Adam@mmg: Oh, and thanks for noting about VLC. I've missed the whole feature. It is really nice addition.