ATI Catalyst 12.8 and Photoshop

[Noel Carboni]

I've been enjoying nearly flawless performance from the Catalyst 12.6 driver set for my Radeon HD 5670 on Windows 7 x64, but as I always need to test new driver releases for my own products, I'm about to download Catalyst 12.8, released on August 15th, and see how it works with Photoshop CS6 et. al.

The drivers are here (for Windows 7 x64):  http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx

The release notes are here:  http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalystSoftwareSuiteVersion128ReleaseNotes.aspx

I'll report back when I've got the drivers in and have done some initial tests. 

I invite and encourage you to post your experiences with Catalyst 12.8 here as well.

-Noel

[Noel Carboni]

Some early findings:

1.  I encountered an error where the Microsoft Installer crashed during the update - this hasn't happened before with a Catalyst release.  However, upon closing the installer the Catalyst Install Manager retried the installation of that component and it ultimately succeeded.

2.  I did some before/after benchmarks, and after the restart the display performance is slightly better (e.g., 1% or 2%).

3.  Photoshop CS6 subjectively seems to come up a little faster.  I timed it with a stopwatch and from a cold start Photoshop comes up to the point where the UI is fully displayed iin 3.4 seconds.  This is a few tenths faster than before (3.6 seconds).  Not a huge difference.

4.  I checked all the Performance settings, and everything's enabled (Advanced mode, OpenCL, etc.).

5.  I did some raw conversions, photo manipulation, Liquify, Lighting Effects.  All worked flawlessly and quickly.

6.  I did some 3D stuff, including opening some existing designs I have and trying some new stuff.  Unfortunately, With one of my modestly complex meshes I think there may be some new slowness I'm seeing specifically manifesting as a few seconds lag whenever I switch to different elements in the 3D panel and before the preview and all the other panels update.  It seems to work once there, and I've been able to move things around at about the same speed as before - the frame rate for that is decent, and possibly a little better than before.  Trouble is, I never objectlvely characterized the time between switching layers before with this design, so I'm not really sure whether it's acting differently than before.  It's just that I noticed it, and that may mean that it wasn't there before.  It's on the hairy edge of distractingly slow.  Rendering seems to work fine, as before, no difference in speed (and none expected, as rendering is all CPU activity).

7.  On an attempt to map an image to the "Hat" preset mesh, I got a preview of the result, but then when I tried to rotate the Current View Photoshop crashed with this error:

Faulting application name: Photoshop.exe, version: 13.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x4f61c045

Faulting module name: atio6axx.dll, version: 6.14.10.11762, time stamp: 0x50135a41

Exception code: 0xc0000005

Fault offset: 0x0000000000b9a8b3

Faulting process id: 0x560

Faulting application start time: 0x01cd7d52e437cdff

Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS6 (64 Bit)\Photoshop.exe

Faulting module path: C:\Windows\system32\atio6axx.dll

Report Id: 8e60f4aa-e946-11e1-9688-005056c00008

Note that the faulting module is atio6axx.dll.

This may say the Catalyst 12.8 driver isn't as good as 12.6, as I have been able to do most anything I want with Photoshop 3D before without a crash like this, and (I think) without the delays.

I'll continue to use 12.8 for a while, and I'll follow up here with more info as I learn it, but I'd say for now that if you have Catalyst 12.6 and no specific problems to solve, you might want to stay with that version.

-Noel

[Noel Carboni]

FYI:  Had another application crash, on exiting Photoshop CS6 after doing some 3D work.

At this point, after having tested my own products with Catalyst 12.8 and finding no new problems, I'm going to remove Catalyst 12.8 and drop back to 12.6.

-Noel

[Noel Carboni]

I can confirm that with Catalyst 12.6 there aren't several second delays when switching between elements in the 3D panel, and so far I haven't seen any recurrence of the crashes, after having done exactly the same things with the 3D tools that led to the crashes I saw with 12.8.

I suggest against upgrading to Catalyst 12.8. 

If you upgrade to Catalyst 12.8 and see problems with 3D operations, uninstall the Catalyst Install Manager (which uninstalls all the software and drops you back to the drivers supplied with Windows), then reboot, then install the Catalyst 12.6 software.

-Noel

[Silkrooster]

Ok, thanks, I'll hold off for awhile. Maybe the next point release.

[Noel Carboni]

Once I went back to Catalyst 12.6 I re-ran the benchmarks and got almost identical numbers as 12.8, so I'm thinking it was just a fluke (maybe something was running in the background) that I saw slightly improved speeds.  Even Photoshop comes up at the same speed as with 12.8 as well.

My system has been supremely stable for the rest of the day back on 12.6.

-Noel

[Silkrooster]

Flukes and computers kind of go hand in hand. LOL.

[Noel Carboni]

I have notified AMD.

-Noel

[Yammer]

Thanks for your efforts, Noel. We share the same GPU. I've already updated to 12.8 and haven't noticed any problems, but I don't do 3D. I'll keep an eye on its behaviour.

[Noel Carboni]

Update:  Catalyst 12.8 May Not Be Bad After All

After having contacted ATI, they suggested that rather than install Catalyst 12.8 as a direct upgrade to 12.6, I should instead uninstall the older driver first then install the new one.

Miraculously, this actually worked!

I now have what seems to be a stable system running Catalyst 12.8, and it seems to run Photoshop CS6 quite nicely.  I haven't seen one fault in Photoshop since having done the 12.8 install - no crashes and no sluggish responses to what should be quick operations.

I suspect the Catalyst installer must be at the root of the problems I saw before, rather than the driver itself, referencing the MSI crash I saw during the attempt to install it.  Completly removing the old version and rebooting, then installing the new version seems to have done the trick.

I'm modifying my earlier recommendation to avoid 12.8:

If you choose to upgrade to Catalyst 12.8, I suggest you do this:

• Go into the Control Panel and do a Change operation on the AMD Catalyst Install Manager, then choose the Express Remove All AMD Components selection.

• When it is done removing the current driver, reboot.  This will run your system on the drivers supplied with Windows.

• Install the Catalyst 12.8 drivers, and watch carefully for any failures during the installation process.  If you do see failures, uninstall and start again.  AMD recommends a driver sweeper program, but I don't trust those.  On the other hand with my knowledge I'm equipped to ferret the remnants out myself - I know not everyone can do that.

• After successfully installing Catalyst 12.8, reboot.

-Noel

[Chris Cox]

Funny, installer issues was what I was talking to the ATI guy about today at the office...

[Yammer]

Noel Carboni wrote:

After having contacted ATI, they suggested that rather than install Catalyst 12.8 as a direct upgrade to 12.6, I should instead uninstall the older driver first then install the new one.

I'm surprised you say that. I thought it was accepted procedure to always uninstall the existing video driver first. I thought some people even run a cleaner utility too, before installing the new driver.

I don't know why video drivers specifically should give so many problems. If the installation supports upgrade, then it should work just as well, or not at all. It makes me wonder if I should take as much care with all of my different driver updates.

It's things like this which give PCs a bad name. I've been working with PCs for 25 years, and know their inner workings pretty well; what chance does a relative beginner have with this sort of unpredictable behaviour?

[Silkrooster]

thats suppose to be the job of the installer, but then again, it also depends on who wrote the installation script. so far I haven't had to uninstall first. But with the issues Noel described, it may be my first.

[Mollysnoot]

On the ATI site they recommend uninstalling the old driver first before updating to a newer one (they have a few video guides that include this information). They've had this up on the site for quite a while now, probably at least a couple of years. So I agree, I thought it was pretty strandard practice, although it's a shame ATI can't incorporate removing the old driver into their installer.

Anyway, thanks for testing this out Noel. I was considering updating to 12.8, but to be honest, I was hoping you might post something about it before I went ahead!

M

[Noel Carboni]

Yammer P wrote:

I'm surprised you say that. I thought it was accepted procedure to always uninstall the existing video driver first. I thought some people even run a cleaner utility too, before installing the new driver.

I don't know why video drivers specifically should give so many problems. If the installation supports upgrade, then it should work just as well, or not at all. It makes me wonder if I should take as much care with all of my different driver updates.

It's things like this which give PCs a bad name. I've been working with PCs for 25 years, and know their inner workings pretty well; what chance does a relative beginner have with this sort of unpredictable behaviour?

I agree with you on that last paragraph.

And what's interesting is that the symptoms of the faulty install are very much like the ones people who are not happy with the Photoshop CS6 release have been reporting here - instability and lag.  It was an incredibly disappointing performance, and there's no obvious indication it's the display driver's fault (except for Faulting module atio6axx.dll in the event log), because Photoshop is what doesn't work very well AND other things that don't use the GPU seem to work pretty well.

I tend to try to use things as they are intended, and ATI's Catalyst package seems to be oriented toward "set it and forget it", including such things as automatic checks for updates.  The most disappointing thing is that their installation process was solid for quite a while - I've been directly upgrading their drivers with the new versions they release literally for years without problems. 

The first indications of problems with this version were that MsiExec.exe (the Microsoft installer) actually crashed during the upgrade install of 12.8:

Faulting application name: MsiExec.exe, version: 5.0.7601.17514, time stamp: 0x4ce792c4

Faulting module name: MSIF93B.tmp, version: 2.0.0.9, time stamp: 0x4d4b089c

Exception code: 0xc000000d

Fault offset: 0x00019d88

Faulting process id: 0x112c

Faulting application start time: 0x01cd7d4f9fa03953

Faulting application path: C:\Windows\syswow64\MsiExec.exe

Faulting module path: C:\Windows\Installer\MSIF93B.tmp

Report Id: e433013f-e942-11e1-8d78-005056c00008

Having been a telecommuter for years, then running my own business with a geographically separated team, I have developed a pretty good intuition about what's happening elsewhere, and I sense a change - a change in management or funding or culture or something - at AMD/ATI with regard to their GPU driver development in about the last year.  Most notably, they've just recently changed from a monthly release cycle to something longer.  Whatever is changing there, it doesn't seem to be for the better.

-Noel

[Yammer]

Noel Carboni wrote:

Having been a telecommuter for years, then running my own business with a geographically separated team, I have developed a pretty good intuition about what's happening elsewhere, and I sense a change - a change in management or funding or culture or something - at AMD/ATI with regard to their GPU driver development in about the last year.  Most notably, they've just recently changed from a monthly release cycle to something longer.  Whatever is changing there, it doesn't seem to be for the better.

Maybe it's time to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence again? Before my 5670, my last few graphics cards had been nVidia. I swapped allegiances because of endless nVidia driver problems. My last ATI card was a Rage3D. Well, I say "last"; I then bought a Radeon, but ended up swapping it for an nVidia card after it had a 'disagreement' with the rest of the computer.

I'm not involved with PC hardware nearly as much as I used to be, when I worked in system building. The last time I did product research, I got the impression that nVidia was good but over-priced and ATI was good value but under-powered.

[davidc1815]

No problems with CS6 and an Nvidia GTX560Ti card running the latest driver 301.42 (WHQL) and more recently the 304.79 beta driver.  I had a load of problems with an ATI card and drivers some months ago and moved to Nvidia then.   No problems since.

[Noel Carboni]

I have to admit, Yammer, the thought had crossed my mind as well...  Like you, I switched brands from nVidia to ATI after serious driver problems in the time of Vista, and if driver issues are going to start to plague the ATI brand, the decision could rightly be revisited.  It's just not something ATI can screw up without consequences!

I have seen enough folks, however, reporting nVidia driver problems recently that the grass may not be greener.  I don't think I'm ready to jump ship just yet; in my case this business with 12.8 is one of only a VERY few recent problems I've had with ATI drivers.  I hope it stays the exception.  So far today, after having gone through this exercise things are going great in my world with the latest drivers.

-Noel

[JohnVo]

hi

Radeon HD 4000 Series is not more supported by ati

i guess the lastest drivers are 12.6

is right?

[Noel Carboni]

When I follow the prompts on the AMD site for Radeon HD 4000 series and Windows 7 x64 it takes me to a Catalyst 12.6 page.  I don't know what OS you have, but it sounds like you're right.

-Noel

[JohnVo]

yes to me too

no 12.8 avaible

[Noel Carboni]

Well, the 4000 series is now what, 5 years old?

I recently bought a 7850, and I know Hudechrome on this forum uses a 7750.  Both seem to be good cards and work pretty well on Windows 7.  I don't know how well they work on Windows 8 yet, though...  I have chosen to hold off upgrading to Windows 8; it doesn't offer any compelling reasons for me to upgrade at this time.

-Noel

[JohnVo]

yes so ati drivers 12.6 are the last!

thanks Noel

did you give a look at http://forums.adobe.com/message/4816359#4816359 ^

thanks

cheers

[Noel Carboni]

Earlier today, for my 7850, I installed the ATI Catalyst 12.11 beta drivers.  Normally I don't install the beta releases, but in this particular case I had a pretty bad problem with the 12.10 release that was resulting in a lot of Photoshop crashes.

I'll give a cautious thumbs-up to 12.11...  So far, in a few hours of fairly intense Photoshop work I haven't had a single glitch.

-Noel

[Hudechrome]

I did 12.8 . I have had no problems with installation or operations save the fact that OpenCL keeps unchecking itself, as it always has, no matter the driver. I am beginning to believe it is a HW problem but it would be ironic as the system is all AMD! (cpu, chipset and video.) OTOH, DXO uses it also and it never unchecks there.

I let the installer do all the work.

I've had three CS6 crashes just before installing 12.8, one of which was atio6axx.dll. So far, no crashes, with CS6 running continuously.

I ran liquify before responding and it runs fine.

I can't say that 12.8 is any better than 12.6, or worse (except for the new version of DXO which is buggy anyway!).

I am experiencing system behavior changes, subtle things like when CS6 firsts opens and that hasn't changed either.  The most glaring is CS6 now takes 14 sec to open, and that's not after first booting the OS. It used to be 1/2  that, and that's also no different than 12.6.