Creating a library of clips in Organizer from a monolithic AVI file.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

Please forgive me if I have missed something and this is easy, or is something that can only be done in advanced tools like Premiere Pro.

I have a collection of 2 hour AVI master files (from Video8/Digital8/MiniDV tapes). Each AVI file has its own project in APE 2022. For each project I have cut the AVI file into a number of separate video clips on the timeline. All good - no problems so far.

In an ideal world, I would like to drag each clip in a project from the timeline to the Elements Organizer such that the clips appear as individual media objects in Organizer which I can individually tag (people, events, locations) and subsequently use as source material in future projects.

After exploring the program and the forums I don't see any easy way to do this. Is this possible without exporting each clip individually or recapturing the tape library with scene detection turned on which would result in the master AVI file actually becoming a collection of individual clips?

If the only way to achieve this in APE 2022 is to export each clip, are their recommendations for the export process (e.g. use AVI Uncompressed)? I'm concerned that exporting will lead to some generational quality loss due to the re-compression process. I'm trying to retain the original quality of the AVI clips - just make them individual objects in Organizer.

Any recommendations or best practices to achieve this goal? Any tricks that I may be missing to avoid having to export each clip individually?

Thank you for any tips/help you can offer.

Grant

Report · Dec 02, 2021

There is no tool in Premiere Elements for automatically breaking a long video into short videos.

There will not be any noticeable loss of quality when you output a video from Premiere Elements. Outputting it as an uncompressed AVI will not change that.

However, much depends on the specs of your original video. You say it's an AVI -- but what codec does that AVI use? And what is that AVIs resolution and frame rate? And what resolution and frame rate are you outputting each segment as?

Report · Dec 02, 2021

Thanks for the quick reply Steve. The specs of a typical file in the library is shown below. The output specs would be similar since I'm simply trying to create separate clips that can be tagged in Organizer and used in future projects.

Also, are you saying that any video output format will result in no perceptible loss? If so I guess I would just chose H.264 to save disk space.

Thanks again.

General
Complete name : C:\Multimedia\Raw Video Files\2021 - Tape 002.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name : DV
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 25.7 GiB
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 29.9 Mb/s
TAPE : 2021-Tape 02 Young Kids
TCOD : 1671863860333
TCDO : 1745725982000
VMAJ : 4
VMIN : 0
STAT : 221365 0 3.426018 1
DTIM : 0 0

Video
ID : 0
Format : DV
Codec ID : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint : Sony
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Original frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357
Stream size : 24.7 GiB (96%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 024 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 32.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 902 MiB (3%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 267 ms (8.00 video frames)
Interleave, preload duration : 266 ms

Report · Dec 02, 2021

What you need is some sort of avi cutter which will cut the file optical as there are no breaks in the timestamp anymore.

Uncompressed avi's are huge not suited for editing.

In Elements you can export to dv avi which is probably your best option.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

https://www.videohelp.com/software/ScenalyzerLive

Halfway is says Download old free Scenalyzer.

Might do the trick by scanning optical.

Used to use this in the old days.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

Thanks Ann! I will give Scenalyzer a try on the next couple of tapes I digitize.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

As Steve writes, there is no automated way to cut the videos into smaller videos. There is a manual workflow that will help.

Set the 'work area bars' to mark the beginning and end of the new clip section. Then output (Export and Share) and check the box of "Work Area Only". The new clips can all have unique file names and be cataloged in any system you choose.

To Steve's point, the output should not create clips with visible degradation. There may be some theoretically compression loss, but the H.264 codec is so good that you will not see it if you match the source specifications in your output settings.

A possible advantage of computing to H.264, MP4 files is that they will likely be editable in anything you use or may want to use in the future.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

To Steve's point, the output should not create clips with visible degradation. There may be some theoretically compression loss, but the H.264 codec is so good that you will not see it if you match the source specifications in your output settings.

By @Bill Sprague

This is incorrect. H.264 is highly compressed and therefor suffers image qualityloss.

If you are not seeing the difference either your eyes are not that good anymore or using a degraded monitor.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

To Steve's point, the output should not create clips with visible degradation. There may be some theoretically compression loss, but the H.264 codec is so good that you will not see it if you match the source specifications in your output settings.

By @Bill Sprague

This is incorrect. H.264 is highly compressed and therefor suffers image qualityloss.

If you are not seeing the difference either your eyes are not that good anymore or using a degraded monitor.

By @Ann Bens

Ann,

My eyes are 76 years old and have brand new graduated trifocals attached. My monitor is 1920x1080 and my TV is 4K. My cameras, software and gear are all consumer grade. I don't make Hollywood videos or have a large YouTube channel. It all works pretty good. (My newest camera flies, but has a tiny sensor!)

I agree that the critical, trained viewer will probably be able to detect some compression degridation in a staged side by side screening. The casual viewer, focused on the story, will not notice if there is a minor incremental visual loss.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

some compression degridation

This absolutely not true for H.264. Ask any professional.

But in the consumer world one is less demanding.

On a side note old capture DV/h8 etc footage should NEVER be transcoded to mp4 for further editing.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

Ann, you gave me a project! I had to see how bad the effect of H.264 compression would be.

I took a test clip shot on an AVCHD camcorder at 1920x1080p60. It was shot indoors and the color balance is off. For this experiment, that's OK. I output two clips for comparison using PrE 2022. The first used the default buttons with the slider set to high. For the second, I used the Match Source button under the Advanced button.

There is no doubt that there are differences induced by the output encoding. The file sizes are different! If I watch the clips, the copies appear to me to be visually as good as the original. (Vimeo has a download button where you can examine the clip exactly as it was uploaded.)

Original: https://vimeo.com/652737440/eca93eeae8

Copy using defaults: https://vimeo.com/652737572/86ea34bbf3

Copy using 'match source': https://vimeo.com/652737753/12f24b3afe

Report · Dec 03, 2021

You are comparing apples with oranges.

OP has old DV footage. You are testing HD.

Are we talking exporting for re-editing or final product?

Anyway I had a look and match source does not look bad but then I dont think the original has a all that great imagequality.

Report · Dec 03, 2021

I don't have any old DV footage! I started this hobby when HD and Blu-Ray was exciting. It is the "worst" I have.

"I dont think the original has a all that great imagequality." Agreed! It was taken with an about 12 year old Panasonic consumer camcorder on "auto" in bad, indoor light. The camera was the first on the USA market that could shoot 1080p! PrE 9 was current then and I found a way to make it edit the HD footage.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

I agree with Bill. If you set up your project for a 720x480 DV-AVI (which the program should do automatically if this is the only video on your timeline) you can output segments of it as 720x480 MP4s with virtually no loss of quality. Your segments should look virtually the same as your original video.

Just know that none of this is going to look great on today's computers or HDTVs. Your original video is standard definition -- less than one-fourth the resolution of today's typical HD.

But as I said, our output MP4s will look every bit as good as your original footage.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

Understood Steve. I'm not looking for it to be HD or 4K quality, just looking to preserve as much of the original SD quality as I can, especially since the scenes will be output individually and later be used as content in another project which will in turn be output (thus the concern about generational loss). From the sounds of it, MP4 may be fine and I'll experiment with that over the next couple of days. Thanks again.

Report · Dec 02, 2021

Many thanks for the tip Bill! I will also give the workflow you suggest a try and will switch to H.264 going forward.