Upon opening, intermittent timeline red bar for projects/sequences resulting in poor performance

Report · Jan 20, 2024

Premiere Pro 24.1.0 (build 85)

Windows 10 Pro (version 22H2)

Intermittent issue, probably started with 23.6.2

Steps to reproduce:

1) Open premiere pro. Single click to open project from recent list.

2) Project opens, Editting workspace, to defaulting sequence/timeline. Issue:

It MAY have red line (performance concern) in the sequence timeline, or it may be yellow (performance ok). Red is much more common. When it is yellow, the system works perfectly, great performance, no dropped frames, no scrubbing delays. When it is red, dropped frames occur just running the sequence (no fast scrubbing required to get dropped frames). Just to get it to run without performance issues, I have to select playback resolution to 1/2.

I have not been able to determine a sequence of events/keystrokes that lead to Red or Yellow consistently. It happens with all projects/sequences I have tried (dozens). I have completed numerous performance improvement tasks (clearing cache, closing project, rebooting) with no change.

64GB of RAM.

I look forward to your suggestions.

Report · Jan 23, 2024

It's a different issue JV. Using Proxies lightens the load on the machine. You were/are having problems with losing preview files as you wanted to Export using Previews. That's also an excellent way to work. But here we are trying to get more performance in the timeline for the OP, that's exactly what Proxies do. I was using cineform for a long time, but I've switched to ProRes now, since I render in that also. 🙂

Report · Jan 24, 2024

Thanks MyerPJ. I think I jumped to the wrong assumptions.

By the way I'm still losing ProRes422 rendered files on re-opening projects. I must try ProResLT as you suggested

Report · Jan 24, 2024

I should clarify that the more I use it the more clear it is that I am just getting by at 1/2 playback resolution. It stutters occasionally, and the playback quality isn't representative; it feels like it's struggling when it is in RED; when YELLOW, woohoo it is terrifically fast. I understand the proxies option, but why go through that if using the original media works fine, and up until the recent version updates, it did work fine. So, I am hoping for a bug resolution that bring the performance up to where it was before. I've seen nothing in the recent feature upgrades that are worth this slowdown.

I look forward to your suggestions.

Report · Jan 24, 2024

I never understand the reluctance to use proxies. What works ... works.

Proxies are one of the older editing/colorist tools out there. Heavily used by the 'heavy hitters' in both editing & colorist trades. And all the top-end cameras like the Red and Arri and the Sony Venice have the option to make proxies in-cam. That's how major proxy use is among the upper tier workers.

It's pretty spiffy for most purposes in Premiere. Select a bin of clips, right-click/Create Proxies. Set the keyboard short for toggling proxies to something you remember. Done.

Report · Jan 24, 2024

Yep, get it. Great functionality... but it's another step for my workflow. A worflow that worked great until a few PP versions ago. And some of my projects have literally thousands of clips, and I don't always have all of my clips to begin with so it's another thing to remember. I use subclips extenstively, and who knows what other kind of thing comes along that adds complication from using proxies.

So, yes, maybe proxies are in my future, possibly inevitably, but why would anyone want to take extra steps if they don't need to. I'm hoping I don't need to.

Report · Jan 24, 2024

<<A worflow that worked great until a few PP versions ago>>

Yeah, a few versions ago... no doubt every program we use needs more and more resources as time goes on... that's why we do hardware upgrades.

I had that same idea Neil mentions, I didn't want to use proxies... until I did, and found out how well they work...

Give it a try for one project, or sequence, or whenever you have less than performance with a file.

<<maybe proxies are in my future, possibly inevitably>>

Exactly. Yes, proxies are at some point inevitable. The source files, 4k, 6k, 8k, or more... overwhelm the hardware, and proxies are what we would use when that happens.

Report · Jan 24, 2024

For awhile the Premiere devs thought they could get ahead of the camera makers and touted a new, cool workflow that would never need proxies. Back about 2015 or so?

Not the brightest statement they've made in hindsight.

Several things happened in quick succession.

First, the drone and DSLR makers went nuts with pushing the long-GOP encoding limits out where no one anticipated them going. Some DJI files now routinely run over 100 frames between iframes.

Second, camera makers kicked up framesize. Hard. The "big" 1280x720 image was suddenly small, and they went from that to UHD to 5k the 6k then 8k in like months. Truly massive file sizes.

And then they increased both dynamic range and color volumes and spaces, also dramatically.

So even many core computers with 128GB of RAM will struggle at times for basic playback.

Now through several video tracks, 16 audio, and put Warp on a few clips, some speed ramps ... sheesh.

Proxies are your friends. Your ticket to meeting deadlines and keeping sanity.

Report · Jan 25, 2024

Coming back to your original issue where you said all was fine before version 23.6.2 - you say you have done various housekeeping tasks such as Cache clearance etc.

Did you also reset your preferences as well, I assume so, but don't mention it I don't think.

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/premiere-pro/using/reset-preferences.html

How much RAM have you got allocated to Premiere in your Preferences settings?

Have you also tried removing the driver from Windows 10 for your GPU totally and re-installing it like a new card with fresh driver installation. I had to do that once.

Also fundamental stuff like Windows 10 updates/integrity?.

Sounds obvious stuff but I have suffered in the past with crazy things like this. Apologies if I am telling you stuff you know

Finally for the Yellow /Red /Green line discussion

If I place a wobbly 4K test clip on my timeline and add Warp Stabilizer - it immediately goes red but after processing and stablising it goes Yellow. This as Ann says shows GPU is working. I believe in older PPro versions GPU was not supported for Warp however (circa pre 2020)

For complex clips that require render (eg Fancy Transitions from a Third Prty) - they will go red first then go green after rendering.

They will be stored in the Premiere Pro Video Preview Files folder.

On project opening they should be located by Premiere and opened by the project to keep your timeline green. You can see them and play them from Windows explorer to check they are there.

If those parts of timeline are still Red - you definitely have a fundamental bug.

Report · Jan 26, 2024

Hi

I've just upgraded from v15.1 to 24.1.

No issues in 15.1 but decided seen as I'm paying £250 a year I should probably move to 24.1.

First project in 24.1 I'm seeing the same issue with red clips on the timeline.

Edit a sequence. Add warp to some clips and lumetri to some. timeline goes yellow.Warp is quick no issue.

Save project.

Re-open project and sometimes all clips are red.

Sometimes only one clip is red.

Sometimes 5 clips are red.

I don't understand why.

Is it config, is it software 24.1.

Don't believe it's hardware. The system is cutting edge. 128GB RAM, GTX4070 grahics, SSD drives. Latest studio driver. Tried 551.23 and 546.33. Issue still occurs.

Copied the footage back into 15.1. Works fine.

Copied the footage back into 22.1. Works fine.

Must be an issue with 24.1??

PWent back to v23 and it's

Report · Jan 26, 2024

Can't seem to edit posts on this forum. Seems rather bizarre.

Forgot add CPU is AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 5965WX 24 Core.

Report · Jan 26, 2024

Again, I get that proxies are great. A great work around for the forward march of inevitable performance-sapping features and media. However, my media didn't change, nor did my system, projects nor workflow. The only thing that changed is the version of PP. And now I have a performance issue that probably is affecting everyone, whether they notice it or not. This should bother everyone, imho. But it is what it is and don't make the decisions and I certainly don't have insight into PP's usage of my system's resources. With this version, performance has worsened; I wish there was a fix.

Look forward to your suggests (that don't involve proxies).

Report · Jan 26, 2024

Some good input, JonesVid, on porential areas to tweak. I didn't reset preferences, but the other items have been tried or eliminated.

Thanks to you, and everyone on this thread, that has shared insight. I appreciate it.

Report · Jan 26, 2024

For a great many of pro video post workflows, especially the "heavy" projects, proxies have never been considered a workaround. They are still and always considered a necessary part and parcel of The Job.

Expected and used in every production.

Most high-end cameras used on spendy productions can record proxy simultaneously with the raw or log original" media. And if they aren't set to do so, then the DIT on-set is probably assigned to create proxies of every clip as they view and create back-ups of everything shot.

They're logged as part of the data for the day's shoot, and shipped off immediately to whoever needs to see them now.

I've never been part of a major long-form or episodic project personally. But many friends and acquaintances routinely do that work. And they say they always have proxies for parts of the workflow.

It's like properly setting up the audio tracks. Way too many editors do not do that up front. It takes a bit of time to learn how to do it correctly, and yes, it slows your startup process initially.

But once mastered, and proper sequence presets are saved, it doesn't add a full minute to the start of a project. But your audio work ... or the pass-through if you hand it off ... goes so much faster.

Report · Jan 26, 2024

Excellent post by Neil.

Report · Jan 27, 2024

The post above by Ianh seems to be have been skipped over.

Info here suggests the system is very capable with an RTX 4070 and should be able to handle heavy work loads easily.

I can do that with a 2070Super.

Fundamentally, there appears to be software bugs in 24.1 handling renders. How they manifest in users systems and workflows seems to vary.

I'm still banging the drum to Adobe about constantly losing ProRes renders - it is an issue which can be replicated easily and happens on both my 13900K system and my 9900K system hardware. Both with similar muliple fast disks internally separating Media/Project/Previews/System/Cache.

>> Ianh suggest you file a bug on your problems as well - the more people logging issues like this the better.

There is a tab at the top of the Premiere community header page to allow posting ideas and bug reports.

Those are supposed to be read by Adobe engineering - they are from time to time, but my post has so far been ignored apart from Kevin Monahan who has also replicated issues.

Include all exact details on your system - how it can be replicated and maybe some screen capture videos to show it happening and post them on a site Adobe can download. Leave no doubt in their minds you are dreaming this !!!!

These discussion pages are created & read by users like us - Adobe don't look at them very much.

Post your bug thread URL here as well so we can keep a look out on it as I am interested to see what is going on here.