color - any feature to use color charts ( x rite ) for color correction?

[salvo34]

I just ordered an x rite color checker passport video from B&H, Been watching some youtube videos to try and get a heads up on how to use with resolve 15 cause I only have CS6 creative suite ( very old ).

Is there a way to use the chart with Lumetri ( with masks etc. ) to do auto correction like fcp and resolve?

Like, you tell it the source color space and timeline space and export space and do an auto correction ?

[R Neil Haugen]

Not at this time. Color charts are very useful when shot right, but no automated recognition of them.

Well ... one use. Do them of the various cams in a scene, set up identically for each one, then use the "Apply match" feature of Premiere to set one to match the other.

Neil

Edit: especially if you're doing this in multicams, do the above while on the Master Clip tab for each clip, then that sets the changes for all instances of each clip in that sequence.

[Michael Grenadier]

there is a free version of resolve...  I have the xrite and did some tests in resolve without much success.  It sounds like a great idea...  have to admit I didn't spend a lot of time trying to make it work...  

[salvo34]

thanks for your answers, you guys... I'll let you know what happens when I get the thing from B&H and test it with BRAW bmpcc 4k

[chrisw44157881]

you can download

http://www.mattroberts.org/MBR_Color_Corrector/

to use your colorchecker automatically. it says it supports CS6 so try the trial to test it.

[salvo34]

Thanks Chris. Good link.

So far I've come to understand ( via google searches etc. ) that this passport video thing is sorta built into fcp and resolve as a way to either automatically correct ( once mask is drawn to cover chart ) or else use manual controls ( which I've been doing for the last couple years without a 'auto chart' option ).

I just want to speed things up for basic levels and wb etc... but usually shoot so it's close so manual is fairly easy.

I want to learn more about the vector scope and HLS in resolve 15 specifically, and that is my biggest dumbness. I haven't got the product yet ( will take a week to get here probably ) so I'm just trying to learn what I can from tutorials online before I get it.

I am old and getting impatient with learning new stuff, but I even thought, " maybe I can write a PM to Neil and ask him to make a tutorial for me," but then realized I'd have to mail him an X rite color checker passport VIDEO card... ( about $ 160.00 with tax ) and then offer another amount of money to do the tutorial, which is beyond my fixed income.

I love it that people to plug ins and claim to fix things easily and all that, but frankly I have to learn how to use it without going bonkers and believing in snake oil remedies.

[Michael Grenadier]

https://mixinglight.com/ I think has some tutorials for using the x rite.  There's a paywall but I think there might be a free trial.  Neil works with them I think.  When I decided to start working in resolve, I bought a set of tutorials (I think it was around $150 us dollars).  This was maybe 3 or 4 years ago.  I worked my way thru most of them and don't think they were the greatest. bwdik.  .   But having the structure to learn the ins and outs of the interface for color correction was definitely useful.  Where I had some serious problems was with the whole database thing.  Unless you're working with the paid version (whatever that was at the time) in a shared environment, it just made things unnecessarily complicated.   

But it is an amazing color correction tool (much better than lumetri in my opinion) and when I was supervising a restoration of a film from the 1970's at a major post house in NY, it was great having the knowledge to be able to push the colorist in certain directions (something he may not have always been happy about).  As they say, a little learning is a dangerous thing.

[R Neil Haugen]

I've got one of the cards, Salvo ... in fact, I've got a clip on a project at the shop that has the card in it, when I get there in a bit I'll mask just to the card and hit the auto color control and see what happens.

Neil

[salvo34]

thanks MG, you basically sound like you went through the same learning curve for resolve after coming form adobe. the books and tutorials and the UI and all that.

Thanks Neil.... if you could find it in your heart to do a tutorial for me using resolve 15 ( not 12 ) and explain the auto and manual stuff ( using all the scopes etc. ) I would seriously consider paying you for that link.

I don't 'subscribe' to anything , ever... I don't let anyone into my bank account for auto payments, etc... so that's out of the question.

[salvo34]

does adobe have to re-write the program from the ground up to catch up with color management ?

[R Neil Haugen]

Salvo ...

Just tested using a mask on a clip to limit the viewed part to the Xrite video color-checker, then hit the "Auto" button in Lumetri's Basic tab. It actually did a pretty good job for an 'auto' setting for white balance, white/black and contrast. I was surprised how tightly the color patches matched in hue vector to the appropriate Vectorscope boxes.

So ... it is useful in Premiere as-is, definitely.

As to whether they have to rewrite to add more user-selectable color managment, well ... yes. But as they have been on a complete rebuild of the app's code base anyway, well ... it was going to have to be done whether or not they added additional user options. So it added some to the workload for the total rebuild job, but hey, that's what engineers are for, right?

One issue they've got ... is when you have complete control of everything as you can with Resolve ... wow, some users bury themselves down a hole so deep there almost isn't a way to return to normal. A large portion of the Premiere user-base is savvy enough to pick through a list of choices and choose wisely.

But they've got plenty of "light" users these days ... and I've seen what some low-knowledge Resolve users have done for their color choices. Yowza. So I think they're trying to puzzle out how to 1) add a ton more user-selectable control and 2) help users from going into weirdsville.

I'm not sure how easy that second part is. Over in the public beta, they're talking about options already 'there' for different color spaces for sequences. So a lot more is coming, and that right soon.

Neil

[salvo34]

Thanks for checking with that color chart. I didn't know a re-write was under way.

Yeah, resolve can get pretty involved... athough the paper manuals help a bit ( same as pdf files of the manuals). Today some guy illustrated taking a green tint off some star shot ( astronomy ) using a parallel node... ( like how you overlay colors and send some to alpha sorta ??? ) and it took a second for me to get it, but the vectorscope showed the result well. I think people have to just keep in mind that color correction is basically levels and basic wb ( like using the chart and auto correct ) while color GRADING is more an aesthetic USE of color to illustrate mood, tone of scene, etc.

[salvo34]

Well, another day another dollar.... NOT.... stuck in apt. due to virus stuff basically. No place to go that's open anyway.

More beer on the menu.

I've now investigated every single youtube video ever made in the world re: how to use resolve 15 with x-rite colorchecker passport video card.

Also some tutorials on using vectorscope. That one is weird cause the guy wants to use a gray card for his basic WB, which I think is stupid.

In another video some guy said, " see this focus chart ? I NEVER use it ! "

That's cause it's really for pro people to do what's called ' backfocus' checks.... ( where the cine lens focus ring lines up exactly with what the focus is on film plane or chip.  That's because they still use tape measures to get focus marks when elements of shot ( talent, cars, etc. ) are 'on their marks'. ))

They use scrims at the lens mount to accomplish that.

They have to do it for all the primes and telephoto and zoom lenses.  Takes a long time.

Anyway, I can't wait to get the stupid colorchart cause I have to work on stuff or I'll go bonkers.

[salvo34]

if you put your focus ring on 10 feet, it's nice to know something at 10 feet is REALLY in focus on the chip ... duh.

[salvo34]

I guess to be more clear about this subject, I want to learn more about using the various controls and scopes to achieve basic color matching my camera settings. I anticipate another long winter in MN. and it will give me something to focus on with edit computer.

I have to move a bunch of stuff ( living room is lined with boxes and milk crates full of film related junk ). The lowel DP lights are of course on the BOTTOM of a pile right next to another pile of milk crates... so I have to drag the milkcrates away to make room to switch the DP lights to the top of that pile.

Does this remind you of owning a film stage with equipment for rent and all that stuff ???

[R Neil Haugen]

Actually, a gray card works well with a Vectorscope for setting neutral hues. The dead-center of the Vectorscope is no saturation, right? That's where all black/gray/white values should 'hang'. So when you get that Xrite card, when you've neutral color set, you'll have a blob in the center for all the black/gray/white values of the card.

I often use white and gray/black cards with the Creative tab's shadow & highlight "tint" controls. Mask for the white card, make sure the trace is centered using the Highlight tint control. Mask for the darker gray/black card, use the shadow tint control. Then I know I've got no WB issues either in the upper or lower values.

Straight "White Balance" work does just that ... balances the white points of the RGB channels. But that affects the upper values the most, by midtones not nearly as much, and hardly anything to nothing in the shadows. So if you have a shadow tint, WB changes don't get it.

Now, very rarely do you want to end up with totally neutral color tones ... but you need to get everything on a sequence neutralized so they're all the same, then move the entire scene/sequence to something prettier. For me, Vectorscope work is simply the fastest way to neutral. No judgement involved, the trace is either centered or it's not.

Neil

[salvo34]

yeah, I hear you. and thanks.

Now I understand the gray card color neutrality thing better.. Thanks.

but that's zone 5 in 10 so for luminance it's not great.

Like if you want a white card in shot to calibrate that, wouldn't you want that around 90-100 IRE or whatever nits now ( up to a thousand ? ) corrospond ?

I'm almost tempted to make a tutorial on how to do stuff... but use younger people to do it for me.

And make a ton of money !!!!  YIPPEE !

ON YOUTUBE !!!!!

[R Neil Haugen]

The way white balance controls work pretty much across apps ... is the same.

The "Temp" or blue/amber control works the Red and Blue channel white points against each other. One goes up while the other goes down, and the Green channel is unaffected.

The "Tint" or green/magenta control works the combined Red/Blue channels against the Green channel. Red/Blue move together against Green ... R/B go up while G does down for example.

It's absolutely like going to the RGB Curve tool, and moving the white points ... note when doing that, the action on all color/tones from white to black: most action at the white point, nothing at black point, all points in-between get lesser change the closer to the black point they are.

So WB controls don't do much in the shadows at all, and far less in the middle values than for the very light values.

So for use in color neutralization, a light or 'white' card is quite useful for setting the highlight hue neutrality ... and a darker gray or blackish card for setting the darker hues for neutrality. And the particular IRE value isn't much of a concern if the main thing you need at the moment is color data.

If you're setting white and black points for tonal work, then yes, you would be very concerned with IRE values.

Neil

[salvo34]

Thanks Neil. I didn't know tint was green magenta so that's a big help. Also explains why some youtube stuff I found used it when 'matching' red blue green stuff ( so they overlap exactly ). Might as well learn this stuff while stuck in apt.

I've been doing stuff manually using mostly the wheels and sometimes curves and sometimes bars... but now I should really get serious and dig deeper into it ( especially vectorscope which I basically never used except for skin tone ).

[R Neil Haugen]

Watching the Vectorscope (YUV) gives you the hue angle and strength of any color. Tells you where your neutrals are if you've got enough neutral (white throught greys to black) to make a significant trace (blob) in the viewer. Total saturation, and saturation by hue.

I like the Waveform (YC no chroma) for seeing the tonality of the image. And the Parade (RGB) for general information about the color across the image left to right.

There are times when it's best to simply check the scopes, and change accordingly ... the Mark I Eyeball is an awesome relative tool, but sucks horribly at absolute things. And there are times that relative ability of the eye/mind combination is the preferred tool.

Neil

[salvo34]

got the chart late yesterday, shot it, stuck it in resolve, used the x rite color mask on it, and it came out really good with the auto 'match' feature. Then messed around with back wall a little cause it's ugly ( desaturated it a hair ). I'm happy with it.

[R Neil Haugen]

In Premiere, they don't have an auto-recognize feature, however as I noted ... just make a rectangular mask around the chart, then hit the 'auto' button in the Basic tab, and it does a pretty decent job of getting to 'neutral'.

Neil

[salvo34]

Thanks Neil, you are a really good teacher.

You know way more than me about color stuff and scopes and so on... so I hope I continue to learn from you.

I'm curious... you say you made mask around chart and did auto color in basic tab... but I have questions.

I used a Lowel DP light ( tungsten ), 1k watt, 32k color temp.. and shot it with bmpcc braw 4k.

Then used the mask thing here and it came out pretty good.

If I was shooting on a stage and wanted to give post a good 'chart' for basic correction ( collaboration) I'd use only the color temp light that matched my camera settting. That way, if I add half CTO to a light coming into a set window ( to simulate sunset ) the basic color correction gives me the look I wanted when I shot it ( and put that color correction gel on that light ).

In other words, when shooting the chart you may want to shoot it using ONLY the color temp light that matches the camera white balance.

Did you by any chance have control over any of that ? What light did you use to shoot the chart ?

Can you put a sample of that shot of the chart up here so we can both see the similarity ???

That would help many people are using Adobe PPro and trying to 'match colors' etc... don't you think ?

[salvo34]

this is sorta a slight sidetrack ( like all my thoughts and activities ) but it took me like two HOURS online to find a decent image of a vectorscope... a basic one..... not the fancy stuff with 75% and 100% boxes and other confusing things ( what the heck is Q ?? ).   This one is basic and can help people understand where the absolute colors are located.

🙂