How to remove LUT from proxy file?

[Mikkel Kinimond5D34]

Hi,

I've noticed a small "problem" when making proxies.

Whenever I shoot on the FX6, Premiere does a color space transform to my clips.
Usually I just remove the LUT through "Interpret footage" - no problem.

But when I want to make my footage to proxies, they automatically burn in the "LUT" that Premiere has given the clips - which I just find super annoying.

I have tried to make a .cube file from Davinci, and then import it to Premiere, where I then made my own Ingest preset.

When I tried to render the proxies with my flat LUT, Media Encoder still put their Color Space Transform on the proxies.

But when I tried to render the proxies with Premieres own LUTs, I did not look like Media Encoder put on the Color Space Transform.

Do you guys have any idea on how I can remove the Color Space Transform, that Premiere/Media Encoder automatically put on the proxies? 🙂

Thanks

[R Neil Haugen]

What's the media you're working with? Log, or HLG or other HDR? And what is it doing to the proxies?

They've had issues with the 22.x builds brand new color system, where proxies with some HLG media don't get the proper treatment. So for example, an HLG or even many Sony log-encoded clips, either used in a Rec.709 timeline, the proxies are HLG. And "blown out" on a Rec.709 timeline.

For that issue they have a potential fix in the public beta app. Download it from the Creative Cloud app's beta tab, and install alongside whatever else you have.

You can open and test the proxy setup there, and close ... then go back to using the 'shipping' version.

Neil

[Mikkel Kinimond5D34]

Hi,

I'm working with S-Gamut.Cine/S-log3.

Premiere Pro is burning in a "Rec. 709" LUT, to the proxies.

I'll try to give your solution a shot! 

Thanks!

[R Neil Haugen]

Technically, that's not a LUT, it's a transform. Mathematically/performance-wise two very different things.

I'd love to see an example of original/proxy as you're getting them now.

Neil

[Mikkel Kinimond5D34]

Hi again,

It looks like a "bug".

Since in the beta version, there is no color space transform on the proxies.

[R Neil Haugen]

The public beta version has newer color management options, which will be in the shipping version soon. The problem isn't a "bug" really, as much as they rolled out with incomplete handling of all file types for color managment in all situations.

Truthfully, Pr2022 has a competely new data handling system for image data. Ground up. 2021 and prior, the color system was Rec.709 centric. Pr2022 is what I'm calling "color space agnostic". Designed to work either Rec.709 or HDR, using the Rec.2100 stats for HDR.

They needed to make the change, period. But two problems: they didn't stick the landing for all potential media format/codecs out there, and they didn't get the information that it was new and required different operating procedures from the users "obvious" either.

So in the public beta, they're rolling out the updated code to include more format/codecs and options than originally "shipped". I had long talks with the program manager at NAB ... this was one of the subjects we discussed. And yea, he's aware it's not been smooth for many users. "To put it politely."

Neil

[peterh81409946]

Its an absolute nightmare. how on earth has been allowed to be released like this . "incomplete handling of all file types for color managment in all situations". Well surely this is pretty common sitiation for FX6 and FX9 users. Makes absolutely no sense when working with log material that proxy files now look completely different. Im working on some music videos at the moment and it makes life very difficult and workflow extremely messy. 

[R Neil Haugen]

They have a new and actually very well written and detailed 139 page pdf on " Adobe Long-form and Episodic Best Practices Guide  " that is good information for setting up and working in PrPro for any editor.

They have a section in there on working with proxies, with a fairly detailed explanation of the current setup.

I work in Resolve also, and even there, proxies and CM can be a pain. So you need a project that will have both HDR & SDR deliverables ... proxies can't be both. Only one. Pick your choice ...

Neil

[Andrew234355495h6c]

Hi Neil,

Thanks. I'm going to read through that well written 139 page PDF just so I can see why Adobe suddenly instituted changes that leaves people completely lost (I'm expereincing the came issue). 

Or on second thought I'm just going to completely give up on Adobe and edit every project in Davinci Resolve from now on.....   I don't actually know why there is not a simple answer for this issue. It shouldn't be applying a transform to my proxies when I removed the unwanted (and completely wrong) transform to footage. My Proxies look hideous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[R Neil Haugen]

First, they had to change the underlying color processes. Period. Premiere was hardcoded 'under the hood' to total Rec.709. They had built a "cadge" in to sort of kind of handle HDR media by internally creating an "Over-range Rec.709 Data" process.

But that was just to get something that sorta worked while building a 'modern' color-space agnostic underlying color system. Which btw is a HUGE thing to do. And got rolled out without any real announcement with the 2022 series.

The release I do have a problem with ... they should have been more clear that EVERYTHING is different, rather than just putting out some smallish pieces on the new color management tools. And I've said so rather directly both here, via email, online meetings, and in-person at NAB last April. The team understands that feeling now.

Next ... proxies are a pain for any app. I work in both Pr & Resolve. You mention going to R to 'solve' your problems. You will trade one set of problems for another set. It might work better overall for you, it might not.

You will not move to something without issues. As even in Resolve, proxies are either SDR or HDR ... they cannot be both. The next version of PrPro supposedly handles proxies just like Resolve does ... you make them for HDR, or you make them for SDR, and they will work within that chosen color space. But not the other.

That might be out in the current public beta which is already starting the 2023 builds. I think so, but I've not checked for it.

These apps are tools. Fancy hammers. Created by a set of humans. Each app has it's good points, hassles, and failures. My colorist buds all have LONG lists of bugs and "poorly chosen behaviors or defaults" with Resolve going back several versions that haven't been 'fixed' yet.

So ... pick your poison, and get the work done. A good friend loves the full Resolve UI and editing in that app. I ... don't. I don't like the locked-down UI, and the editing process there is just not my cuppa. But I can work in it when I need to.

To each their own.

Neil