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kpmgaither2
Inspiring
May 5, 2023
Answered

Lag in Timeline Playback When Using Dual Monitors

  • May 5, 2023
  • 2 replies
  • 5930 views

Been searching on this for days with no luck.  I know it's a long post, but there has to be a solution to such a simple problem...

 

I have a Premiere Pro project in which I'm doing a 4-Camera Multi-Cam edit of a local high school play that runs about 2.5 hours.  I've transcoded all 4 camera clips to ProRes 422; 2 of them are 1080p @ 23.98 fps (close-ups), and two of them are 2160p @ 23.98 fps (wide shots).  My timeline/output format is 1920x1080 @ 23.98 fps, and I filmed the two cameras in 4K so that I could zoom in to the clips up to 40% and create alternate shots based on who was talking in each scene.

 

I recently replaced one of my 24-inch 1080 monitors with a 32-inch 4K monitor.  When I first started multi-camera cutting during playback, it worked pretty well.  I'm about 35 minutes into the edit, and now I can't get my timeline to play without lagging/getting choppy.  It only happens when playing the timeline and viewing the edit in the Program Monitor... if I watch any of my clips in the Source Monitor, they play exactly as they are supposed to, but once I cut them into a timeline, the lag starts up.  Another problem is when I hit my number keys to switch cameras during playback, there's a delay between my keystroke and when it actually inserts the edits.  This forces me to have to go back and massage every single edit I make on a second pass.

 

Also, when I stop cutting to review my edits and make adjustments, sometimes playback will just continue, usually leading to PP crashing.  Same thing sometimes happens when I scroll the playhead through the timeline as well.

 

After one of my Google sessions, I tried unplugging the HD monitor and performing the same process of real-time multi-camera edits solely on my 4K monitor... SUCCESS!!!  Everything worked exactly how it was supposed to work.  However, this shouldn't matter; I use dual monitors for a reason, and just because it does work on the 4K monitor, and it's a pretty big one, doesn't mean I should be forced to work that way.  Also, with both displays connected, the clips with which I'm editing play perfectly in QuickTime Play and VLC.

 

Now, I know there are A LOT of moving parts to this, so let me give some information.  First, my system specs:

 

- Mac Mini M2 (2023) 10-Core GPU, 8-Core CPU (4 performance, 4 efficiency), 16-Core Neural Engine

- 24 GB Unified Memory, 256 GB internal SSD for Application storage (Model: Apple SSD AP0256Z)

- Hardware-accelerated H.264, HEVC, ProRes, and ProRes Raw

- Supports up to two displays: One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 5K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt or 4K resolution at 60Hz over HDMI

-  My Displays:

  • Samsung SMS23A550H - 1920x1080 (Default) @ 60 Hz - connected via HDMI using an adapter to USB-C; adapter is advertised to convert up to 4K@60Hz
  • Samsung U32J59x - 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz - connected via HDMI directly to the Mac Mini

- Storage: I have an OWC Ministack STX enclosure connected via Thunderbolt 4:

  • 1 TB M.2 SSD - WD_BLACK SN770
  • 2 TB, 2.5 inch SSD - WDS200T1R0A

- Software:

  • macOS Ventura 13.3.1
  • Adobe Premiere Pro 23.3.0 (Build 61)
  • PP Installed on internal 256 GB internal SSD
  • PP Cache is being stored on the 1 TB M.2 SSD
  • All media stored on 2TB 2.5-inch SSD
  • Project File stored on 2TB 2.5-inch SSD

 

I think that's everything about my computer.  Here is a list of things I've tried based on my searches for an answer - and none of them have worked at all.  Given how frustrated I am, I doubt it's comprehensive:

 

  • Restarted computer and software
  • Cleared all caches
  • Reset all preferences
  • Reverted back to versions 23.2.0, 23.1.0, 22.6.4
  • Tried Premiere Pro Beta version
  • Uninstalled and re-installed software
  • Tried creating new projects, importing clips and creating new Multi-Camera sequences
  • Tried opening using Rosetta
  • Set Audio Hardware > Default Input to "System Default - No Input"
  • Checked/un-checked both "hardware accelerated decoding" and "ProRes hardware accelerated decoding if available"
  • Checked/un-checked "Enable Mercury Transmit"
  • Rendered timeline - nothing needs rendering, no effects applied to any clip in any timeline
  • Tried "Composite View," "Mult-Camera," and "Comparison View" in Program Monitor
  • Tried ½, ¼, and ⅛ in Playback Resolution on the Program Monitor
  • Tried various editing modes under Sequence Settings
  • Checked/un-checked "Auto Tone Map Media"
  • Tried both "QuickTime" and "I-Frame Only MPEG" under Preview File Format
  • Cut one of the 4K clips into a 4K sequence
  • Cut one of the 4K clips into a 1080p sequence
  • Cut one of the 1080 clips into a 1080p sequence
  • Sectioned off my sequence into smaller parts as short as 5 minutes to see if the total length of the timeline was the issue
  • Pulled the audio tracks I intend to use out of the Multi-Cam Clip Sequence and inserted it into the edit timeline, also deleted the nested audio tracks
  • Changed 4K display resolution to match the other 1920x1080 @60Hz monitor
  • Tried 30 & 50 Hz refresh rates on both monitors
  • Switched all media over to the M.2 drive, and moved the cache storage to the 2.5-inch SSD.
  • Tested both Media and Cache drive speeds using Blackmagic Disk Speed Test:
    1.   2.5-inch SSD Media Drive: 495.4 MB/s write, 489.5 MB/s read
    2.   M.2 SSD Cache Drive: 701.4 MB/s write, 785.6 MB/s read
  • Observed CPU & Memory usage in Activity Monitor during playback/editing:
    1.   CPU: "Idle" memory number never dipped below 83%
    2.   Memory: "Memory Used" number never went above 13.02 GB (out of 24 GB)

 

I'm sure I've tried other things as well, but I'm too fried to think of them.  Please help if you have any ideas.  With a computer this fast, it doesn't seem like it wouldn't be able to handle such a simple project.  I'm aware that proxies are often a method of fixing lag issues, but why should I have to wait until my full, online edit to see these clips in hi-res?  The playback issue is still going to be there on the back end, plus this computer is engineered to handle the exact codec I'm using.

 

Any thoughts?

 

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer kpmgaither2

    Ok, I've found a fix, but the technology of it still doesn't make sense to me.

     

    I realized after made my original post that I hadn't tried swapping the two monitors' inputs on the back of the mini.  Originally, the 4K monitor was plugged in directly to HDMI, while the 1080 monitor was plugged into one of the Thunderbolt 4 ports via an HDMI adapter.  I simply swapped those, and the problem was solved.  No lag in playback or in real-time editing.

     

    It's nice to know that it's fixed, but if the HDMI port on this specific machine is able to handle 4K resolution @ 60 Hertz, I don't understand why it would create the lag in the first place.  The cable is an HDMI 2.1 capable of 8K resolution, so that can't be the problem.  Either way, I'm able to work without issue now, so I guess it's best to just let it go.

     

    Thanks to everyone for their input and ideas!!!!

    2 replies

    K
    kpmgaither2AuthorCorrect answer
    Inspiring
    May 9, 2023

    Ok, I've found a fix, but the technology of it still doesn't make sense to me.

     

    I realized after made my original post that I hadn't tried swapping the two monitors' inputs on the back of the mini.  Originally, the 4K monitor was plugged in directly to HDMI, while the 1080 monitor was plugged into one of the Thunderbolt 4 ports via an HDMI adapter.  I simply swapped those, and the problem was solved.  No lag in playback or in real-time editing.

     

    It's nice to know that it's fixed, but if the HDMI port on this specific machine is able to handle 4K resolution @ 60 Hertz, I don't understand why it would create the lag in the first place.  The cable is an HDMI 2.1 capable of 8K resolution, so that can't be the problem.  Either way, I'm able to work without issue now, so I guess it's best to just let it go.

     

    Thanks to everyone for their input and ideas!!!!

      L
      lockhartgary
      Inspiring
      April 23, 2024

      Thanks for the solution.  I am on a Windows 10 machine and was having the same issue.  I use 2 monitors, one connected via HDMI on the motherboard that uses Intel UHD graphics and the other connected via HDMI to an NVidia 1070.  My monitors are a bit on the older side and thru a Google search I found that 1 of them has a driver.  I installed the driver and voila, no more stuttering!

        iDAC
        iDAC
        Participating Frequently
        May 5, 2023

        Hi there kpmgaither2!
        It seems like the issue you're facing is related to your 4K monitor. When you connect it, the playback in the Program Monitor becomes choppy and laggy, and there's a delay when switching between cameras. However, when you unplug the 4K monitor, everything works fine on the 1080p monitor.

         

        One possible reason for this issue is the graphics card not being able to handle the load when playing back 4K footage in real-time. You may want to check if your graphics card is compatible with the monitor and if there are any known issues with this combination.

         

        Another possible reason could be the refresh rate of the monitor. Your 4K monitor has a refresh rate of 60Hz, which is higher than the 23.98 fps frame rate of your footage. This could be causing some synchronization issues between the monitor and the playback in Premiere Pro. You may want to try lowering the refresh rate of the monitor to match the frame rate of your footage and see if that helps.

         

        Here are some things you can try to resolve the issue:

        • Update your graphics card drivers: Ensure that your graphics card drivers are up to date. You can check the manufacturer's website for the latest drivers.

        • Lower the resolution of the 4K monitor: Try lowering the resolution of the 4K monitor to 1080p and see if the issue persists. If the issue goes away, it could be a sign that your graphics card is not powerful enough to handle 4K footage in real-time.

        • Lower the refresh rate of the 4K monitor: Try lowering the refresh rate of the 4K monitor to 23.98Hz and see if that helps. You can do this from the display settings on your computer.

        • Use a proxy workflow: If the above solutions don't work, you may want to consider using a proxy workflow. This involves creating low-resolution copies of your footage that are easier to playback in real-time. You can edit with the proxy files and then switch back to the original footage for the final export.

        • Use an external monitor: If none of the above solutions work, you may want to consider using an external monitor that is compatible with your computer and graphics card. This will allow you to edit with a larger screen without any issues.

         

        If I misunderstood the question or you’re still running into issues, drop some more info on the situation and we’ll figure this out!

        Kind of threw a lot at you, I hope one of these solutions works for you. 


        -iDAC

        K
        kpmgaither2Author
        Inspiring
        May 5, 2023

        Hey, iDAC!  I appreciate the response!

         

        However, I do think you misunderstood my process for testing the monitors... you have it backwards: I unplugged the HD monitor and tried multi-camera editing solely on the 4K monitor with no second display of any kind attached.  That's the only way I've gotten the video to play back, and the camera switching to occur in time with each keystroke.

         

        Thank you for your list of troubleshooting options as well!  Since I'm on a Mac, though, I don't think updating drivers isn't an option for me.  It uses the new M2 chip, and the drivers are part of the OS, I believe.

         

        I mentioned in my second list above that I tried lowering the resolution and refresh rates of my 4K monitor, but to no avail.  Additionally, I do understand the benefit of a proxy workflow, but that shouldn't be necessary given the speed of my system and the codec I'm using.  Apple's website specifically lists ProRes as a codec that is hardware accelerated, including an encode and decode engine.  I don't want to use up more hard drive space creating proxies when I don't need to; until I find a fix, I guess I'll just edit using only the 4K monitor.

         

        Regarding using an external monitor, I believe you mean something that's not a computer display, but rather an A/V monitor that I can watch the edit full screen while using only one computer monitor for Premiere functions?  I will certainly try that!  I'm not optimistic because connecting that A/V monitor will use the same ports on the computer itself, but I will give it a go!

         

        Thanks so much for taking the time!  I really appreciate it!!!

        Joost van der Hoeven
        Joost van der Hoeven
        Community Expert
        May 5, 2023

        It sounds to me your are hitting the limit of what a Mini with M2 and 24 GB can handle. It advertises that it can handle 2 screens, but be aware that it uses resources just to show the pixels. Also, you have you tried swithing the monitors and other devices in HDMI thunderbold/USB-C ports? I'm not sure on the mini if they have separate controllers. Try to divide all heavy lifters over all ports.

         

        This is pretty much what @iDAC means with: "One possible reason for this issue is the graphics card not being able to handle the load when playing back 4K footage in real-time. You may want to check if your graphics card is compatible with the monitor and if there are any known issues with this combination."

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