Merge clips in CC 2018

Report · Mar 20, 2018

Hi,

Has merged clips been fixed in the latest CC 2018 or are people still experiencing

problems with them? how is it to use them for the entire edit?

I just tried a very small conform from merged clips (where the Alexa file names where changed to take names while editing) from CC 2018 to Resolve 14,

and it seems to be working the original media and file names are showing up!

Report · Mar 20, 2018

This sort of thing can be so determined by the 'local' factors of the machine, media, & such that one may 'share' the issue with others and then suddenly you change something seemingly unrelated and you don't have the issue anymore. Which makes assuming you either will or won't have an issue with a different version a waste of time. Irritating, at times of course.

Another option for joining camera media with low-quality audio to external audio media is to use the multi-cam process. Jarle Leirpoll in his book at PremierePro.net - discover the cool stuff in Premiere Pro gives a good explanation of why ... and how ... this is superior in many ways to Merge Clips. Among other things, you can select an entire bin of media, do the multi-cam process, and it will make as many sequences as it sees different camera/audio combinations. You have ten cameras, ten sources of external media ... you get ten sequences that can be used as clips including Q/W editing shortcuts and such.

Neil

Report · Mar 20, 2018

Another option for joining camera media with low-quality audio to external audio media is to use the multi-cam process.

This is nice when you have timecode or a reference audio track on the footage, a lot of high end cameras RED and Alexa,

will be silent unless production feeds the camera a reference track. If footage is silent you have to mark in and out and sync manually.

Report · Mar 20, 2018

Yup. Not as handy. However, there are still options available after the 'merge' via multicam you don't have with Merge Clips.

And is one of the things where if you know you'll be dealing with this, you need to communicate ahead of time with the DP to insure the cams all have a reference audio track. Not always possible, but ... over time, one can perhaps educate the DP's to think of this sort of thing.

Neil

Report · Mar 20, 2018

What is the most advisable way when you have silent footage to avoid issues down the line.

Mark sync point manually in the project window for the audio and video file, select both the audio and video file,

then create multicam clip?

I'm tempted to go the merge clips route, since the clips have already been sunk in the timeline.

I did a small test as I mentioned above and things were fine, match frame, Q and W worked as well.

My only concern is this will be a larger project, probably 500-1000 cut points in the final timeline

so would I be heading into trouble with merge clips?

Report · Mar 20, 2018

That's a much bigger project than I'm used to ... I'll ping Jarle Leirpoll for his advice.

Neil

Report · Mar 20, 2018

Hmmm.... Merged Clips does NOT work fine with Q and W, since the Audio and Video are of different lengths. With multicam clips they're the same length.

Merged clips will probably not give you any problems while editing a large project. It's when you export this project to AAF or OMF that the problems start. This is NOT when you want to have trouble.

Syncing with the Multicam method or the Merged Clips method are pretty much the same if you don't have audio on the video clip, unless you have common Timecode on both video and audio, in which case the multicam method will be many, many times faster, since you can sync all the clips in one go.

Report · Mar 20, 2018

Also, Merged Clips strip out all the metadata from the original files, so the metadata is lost in XML, AAF and OMF exports. So if metadata and markers are important, you should be aware of this.

Report · Mar 22, 2018

Jarle,

I did do a test myself:

Q and W seems to be working for me on a merge clip.

I'll give an AAF a try but I did try an XML from a small edit of merge clips (Pr CC 2018) to Resolve (14),

and it came through with the original video and audio file names.

Report · Mar 22, 2018

So when you have a merged clip, do your audio and video start and end at exactly the same time? That would be highly unusual. If not, when pressing Q or W, you will have either audio or video extending (as shown on my video tutorial) before or after the cut, and you'll have to delete it manually. That is not what I'd call "working". It's not working as well as with multicam clips, where audio and video are, per definition, the same length.

If you really have Q and W working well on Merged Clips, I'd love to see a screen recording of it, and I'd like to see screen shots of your preferences too. If it's possible to make it work, I'll need to change some sections of my book.

XML does not have the same issues as AAF when you export after using Merged Clips, so that is as expected. Plus, I never said that the original file names would be lost. I mentioned Metadata, not file names, so that's also no surprise.

Report · Mar 22, 2018

I now see what you mean with the audio/video extending.

Reminder for this project, I have no scratch audio/TC to facilitate syncing, so I was syncing manually.

Since I was syncing manually, I actually trimmed the audio to the exact length of the video before I merged the clip.

If this is done, Q and W will behave as they should.

If one is to merge clips with audio and video that do not match each others length, you will run into the audio/video

extending issue. So for any automatic/TC syncing where you are unable or not willing to either trim the video or audio

so they are the same length, avoid merge clips.

Just for the sake of argument not for efficiency, if one does have a scratch track or TC, one could automatically sync

via plural-eyes or premiere's built in tools, line all the takes in a timeline, trim the video or audio of each take so they

are the same length, then merge and Q/W will work appropriately.

Report · Mar 26, 2018

Is there a way to create a multicamera source sequence from the timeline instead of the project window? I

know if you sync that way, the metadata will be retained.

However, my clips are already lined up in the timeline (just haven't been linked or merged), as previously mentioned

they are silent, so I would not want to have to resync them manually from the project window.

Report · Mar 28, 2018

You can sync in the timeline, and then enable multicam on the clip (sequence) when you put it in another sequence.

Report · Mar 28, 2018

That way won't create individual files though (you'll end up with a long sequence with all the clips nested), right? Instead of individual multicam clips based on each take (or start/stop of the camera).

Report · Mar 28, 2018

You'd have to copy the takes to other sequences one by one, and then enable multicam on those. Which is why everyone uses the Create Multicam source sequence option instead.

Report · Oct 07, 2018

I'm about to do edit a short story using Sony FS7 4k Slog with external audiom so I'm researching this right now.

I've read the approrpiate chapter in "The good stuff", but I also found this

https://blog.frame.io/2018/05/14/premiere-batch-syncing/

article by Sofi Marshall - she describes using Multicam but suggests merging as a final step - to quote

"they don’t pose nearly as many problems as rumored once you understand how to work with them."

She compares with multicam vs multicam vs merge towards the end of her article

"Multi-Camera Source Sequences vs Merged Clips"

Jarle and others with loads of experience - it would be great if you could have a look and see if you agree, disagree or beg to differ.

Report · Oct 08, 2018

I guess it all boils down to what you like the best.

It amuses me that she makes a point out of how quickly she can merge clips when she maps a keyboard shortcut to the command. Then she explains how horribly time-consuming flattening un-linked audio is when using multicam, because you have to go into a right-click menu twice. If she had mapped a keyboard shortcut to that command, she'd be working a lot faster with that method. While the workaround of exporting an XML is a nice hack, it's still another step that takes time.

This only shows that we're all human. We take the time to map keyboard shortcuts to our favorite commands, but we kind of insist on keeping the workflow we don't like as horrible as possible. This confirms to us that we've made the right choice.

Personally, with the knowledge that AAFs with Merged Clips do not work out of the box, while AAFs from multicam clips do work, my choice is to use Multicam syncing.

Report · Oct 08, 2018

1. Beware your audio setup if multicam syncing with audio - if you've lots of tracks then you may get unexpected flattening results, that do not appear until you start editing. I have a template (Dropbox - 6. ADOBE MCAM PROJECT TEMPLATES.zip) that I copy my sync map into to ensure that I get track for track output, but I find that you can't reliably have multiple audio clips in one mulitcam sequence.

2. You could build a big sync map (take a look at https://www.videotoolshed.com/product/autosequence-/ - if you have matching timecode) then use a macro to subsequence every video clip with matching audio.

Maybe check out some of the adobe voice posts and help out with some votes (if you think workable audio is more important than dealing with BM Raw). Or post your own if these don't fit...

On merge clips:

PLEASE FIX: Merge clips functionality destroys audio metadata – Adobe video & audio apps

On audio in multicam:

Better audio management for multicam sequence – Adobe video & audio apps

BUG: Multicam audio disappears - sample project attached – Adobe video & audio apps

disappearing audio when flattening a multiclip – Adobe video & audio apps

On audio metadata:

Option to show multicam camera label in timeline – Adobe video & audio apps

Enable bin columns (and properties and track names and timeline) to show ixml data from audio files ...

More audio metadata in bin columns (like Avid) – Adobe video & audio apps

ixml – Adobe video & audio apps

Report · Oct 08, 2018

Thanks for sharing your template Trevor.

I've found audio flattening to be very reliable when I choose Automatic for the Sequence Preset, and All Cameras and Mono for the audio settings. This makes sure every track gets its own output, which is almost always what you want. It also makes all the Waveforms display properly, since no mixing is going on, and this has the added benefit of saving on computer resources.

I've seen editors try to outsmart the multicam syncing by using custom sequences, with catastrophic results. I've never seen it fail using the settings above. If you have a project file where this method fails, I'd like to dig around in it if you're willing to share. Your workaround of copying the synced clips to a custom sequence will of course also work, but it's an extra step we shouldn't have to do.

Also, thank for the links to other discussions. I agree that one should read up on the problems people have with this workflow, and avoid the pitfalls.

Report · Oct 08, 2018

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jarle+Leirpoll wrote
I've found audio flattening to be very reliable when I choose Automatic for the Sequence Preset, and All Cameras and Mono for the audio settings.

Good info. I'll try and work with that the next few times I do multi-cam and see if I come unstuck.

Report · Oct 08, 2018

Multi-cam and merged clips can have so many ... hidden? ... effects of the choices we make in setting them up. I wish this was more obvious somehow.

Neil