.MTS files from Panasonic GH2 camera show noise artifacts

[skydragon01]

If I load .MTS media files from my Panasonic GH2 camera onto the timeline of Premiere Pro CS6 (Win7 on PC) on some footage I get a wierd noise/artifact appearing in the footage on playback and also if i render the timeline out.

The artifacts look like a 'rain' of digital noise appearing in certain dark areas of the footage (issue doesn't happen on well lit scenes)

If I use Media Player Classic to play back the .MTS footage outside of PP CS6 the footage plays back 100% ok.

If I transcode the .MTS files into DNxHD format using Adobe Media Encoder the problem persists.

However ....if I transcode the .MTS files into DNxHD format using a 3rd party transcoder (5DtoRGB) the problem is resolved and the DNxHD files work 100% ok in PP CS6

It is as though both PP CS6 and also Adobe Encoder are not interpretting the .MTS file structure ok (?) and introducing artifacts.

It seems that some dev work is needed to resolve the handling of .MTS files by Adobe (?)

Can anyone please assist?

Thanks

[Jim_Simon]

I don't understand enough to know how PP links to the MC filters.

There's the rub.  I don't know enough about the inner workings of various software either, only some general knowledge.

[Guest]

Oh dear, are we both searching in a darkened room

Ok tried without Main Concept main program and no difference.

A suggestion from personal view forum is to try http://paul.glagla.free.fr/filmerit_en.htm to change the direct view filter settings.  Think I will put a system restore point in place bofore trying this and potentially stuffing up my edit system.

Do you have any idea on anyone else in the forums who would know more on the inner workings of filter calls in PP?

[Jim_Simon]

Only the folks who actually work for Adobe, whose participation here is sporadic.

[Guest]

Hi Jim.  Not sure if its still Sunday in your part of the world   So sorry to bother you if it is, but when you get a moment it would be great if you could upload that little plain wall test clip as I'm not sure what else to do next.

Cheers

Andy

[Jim_Simon]

Sunday afternoon here.  Believe it or not, I'm still working.  My client wants her video tonight, so...

[Guest]

Yeh I spent Sunday, Yesterday, all day working whilst my client played golf !

[Guest]

I have been joining in the parallel discussion on Personl Views and general opinion is it is not the camera but a symptom of long GOP structure and has been seen in other camera files as well.  So the options are:

1) Use I frame only - With GOP=1 you have no problem as each frame is an I frame and the GOP issue does not apply.  Just means you need to do a ptools firmware with higher bit rate to compensate for the I frame only.  Makes editing easier anyway and less artifacting due to inter frame compression.  So not the stock firmware and higher speed SD cards.

2) Use ProRes conversion - Works with standard MTS and stock firmware.  My edit platform is Windows 7 so I use FFMPEG with a front end GUI "another Gui".  You can download tones of presets including the ProRes variations.  Very quick conversion as FFMPEG uses all processors at 100% and you get great looking ProRes 442 or 444 files which stand up to grading far better than the original 264 420 files.  Best of all it's open source free.

I had thought going through the pre conversion would waste time but of course you can still use the original files, convert overnight then relink the media.  This assumes your not working through the night

Cheers

Andy

[jimmiesner]

Andy,

Could you go into a little more detail on what FFMPEG version you use, how you set it up with "another GUI", or links for your ProRes variations?  Thanks!

Jim

[Guest]

Hi Jim

Sure no problem with the info.  There are plenty of threads saying ProRes encoding is MAC only and not possible on Windows but this is NOT true.  Being able to supply ProRes also appeases those who insist the media world is just Mac .

It took me a while to get to this point so glad to share what I have found.

I use 2 pieces of software for conversion.  FFMPEG and Another Gui.  FFMPEG is command line only but incredible versatile and quick at transcoding.  In tests it uses all my CPU cores at full tilt.  Another GUI is the nice GUI interface for FFMPEG, it takes the hassle out of typing in long lines of parameters for FFMPEG.  There are many GUI's out there for FFMPEG but I chose Another Gui as it has a ton of presets on the webpage which avoids you having to make your own up.

FFMPEG Download page - Download the latest widows version.  For example the latest 64 bit is this one: http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/win64/static/ffmpeg-20130302-git-4f0d4ac-win64-static.7z

Another gui webpage - And download the latest version

Install Another GUI and then unzip the FFMPEG into the same folder.  It can be anywhere but same folder is easier to find.  Run Another Gui and agree to load factory presets.  Then click on "edit" and for Executable click "add" then choose where your FFMPEG.exe is.  It will be in the "bin" directory in the FFMPEG fodler structure.

To use Another Gui you select your source file then a conversion preset, choose and out put directory then click "go".  Another gui passes the seettings to FFMPEG which opens in a command line window which closes once the conversion is done.  The command window gives you an update on progress and frames/sec conversion rate.  To get a bleep when the conversion is finished, right click in Another GUI, preferences and tick the bleep box.  And you should have you transcoded MTS to ProRes files.  PP opens them fine for me and you get much improved seeking and more range with your grading.  Of course no rain effect which is the whole point

Another GUI comes with standard presets but to add others including ProRes, go to the Another Gui webpage and the presets page.  scan down the list till you find a preset you want to use and download it.  Then in Another GUI, click edit under the preset box and click import.  Then find your download preset and import it.  There are 4 ProRes presets so download all 4 and import them one at a time.  Download and import any other presets you want to use.

Hope this all makes sense, any questions and I will try and answer them.

Cheers

Andy

[jimmiesner]

Thanks for being so detailed Andy!  I have been trying clipwrap, 5DtoRGB and winrewrap.  Each has posed different problems, as we go between mac and pc in our office.  Which of these settings do you use?  I am trying to get as close to regular 422 as possible.

Jim

[Guest]

Hi Jim

We don't have any MAC's in our systems here, were a realatively small company and based entirely round Windows 7 workstations and Linux storage and data servers.  Usually the only transferring we do is in and out of the facility rather than between workstations.  I have never had a problem with importing ProRes ex MAC drives before except when the drive has been formatted in "EXFat" which does not open on Windows 7.  Apart from that ProRes ex Mac into Windows PP with MAC Drive works fine.  I don't have any experience with Clipwrap or 5DtoRGB etc.

Another GUI has a number of "rewrap" presets including to QT MOV but I have not tried this to see if it works importing into a MAC.

Cheers

Andy

[jimmiesner]

Andy,

One last question.  Have you had any luck joining long spanned clips?  I have tried mts merger, but it caused weird glitches in my clips upon export.

Jim

[Jim_Simon]

Here's a couple of 10 second clips.  One underexposed and one properly exposed.  What do you see?

http://depositfiles.com/files/0yhnq0rav

[Ann Bens]

I finaly got it sorted with deposite files.

and what do i see in both clips in the vlc player? rain!

Exactly the same as in the other clips.

[Guest]

Interesting.  Played in VLC I get the inital 1/2 sec of rain then clean.  In PP CS6 I get no rain in import or on export, so it is clean.  However our files are differnet.  Your bit rate is double mine which shouldn't mater however when I do a mediainfo on our 2 files mine has a GOP structure and yours does not.  So we have some sort of difference in our 2 MTS files apart from the bit rate.

Jims file that looks ok:

Video

ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)

Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L4.0

Format settings, CABAC                   : No

Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames

Codec ID                                 : 27

Duration                                 : 10s 552ms

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 44.7 Mbps

Maximum bit rate                         : 92.0 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.898

Stream size                              : 56.2 MiB (95%)

Andys file that faults:

ideo

ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)

Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L4.0

Format settings, CABAC                   : No

Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=12

Codec ID                                 : 27

Duration                                 : 30s 720ms

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 25.1 Mbps

Maximum bit rate                         : 30.6 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate                               : 50.000 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.544

Stream size                              : 91.8 MiB (95%)

[Jim_Simon]

This is a complex issue it seems.

I get no rain in PP.  I do see a second of rain in VLC, then clean.  When I open the clips in my default media player, KMPlayer, I have the option of selecting the renderer I'd like to use.  Some renderers (like the default overlay) show little or no rain.  Others (like the Direct3D 9 RGB Surface) show it very clearly, worse than I've ever seen on any other clip.  So it now seems as if the renderer plays a part in all this.  Why these clips show rain in VLC, but not PP, I haven't a clue.  (But I am grateful as hell, not having to deal with this on a production basis.)

I still think the error lies at least partially in the clips themselves.  Something is causing them to be rendered improperly, where AVCHD from other cameras render fine. (At least, the GH2 is the only camera I've heard of having this issue.)

So now, I don't even know what question to ask next.  Your clips show the rain in PP, mine do not.  Yet they both show rain in VLC and other players.  What the HELL is going on here?!  There's no consistency to grab hold of, no one factor that remains the same in all cases.

(Mine do have a GOP structure, by the way.  They're recorded using the Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' 12/15 GOP (DREWnet) with cbrandin '444 Soft Matrix'.)

[Guest]

I realized were not comparing eggs for eggs yet as my clip was 1280x720@50F/s.  So I think I need to record a clip with exactly your settings.  Can you tell me if your using stock 1.1 firmware and if not, can you tell me what hack settings your using or even better upload the firmware version you use so I can duplicate in my GH2's.

Also what settings your using in the GH2 menus so I can match exactly.

There has to  be an answer in here somewhere !

[Jim_Simon]

Patch is listed in my previous post.

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/4391/apocalypse-now-experimental-series-1-thread-boom-...

Recording 24H, Cinema 0, -2, 0, -2.

[Guest]

Which version of the patches on that webpage are you using?  I can't see your patch mentioned earlier in this post.

Cheers

Andy

[Jim_Simon]

End of post 68.

Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' 12/15 GOP (DREWnet) with cbrandin '444 Soft Matrix'

[Guest]

I was trying another one when you wrote your post.  Ok, apart from the first 1/2 sec of disturbance I now have a clean import and clean export !!!!  So it is not a camera fault as such however it is firmware related.  These are the settings I used and there is no fault present.  So real progress in the fault finding process.  I guess the next step would be a lot of tests with various firmware's.

Driftwood Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' - 6 GOP Nebula '444 seti

23.976 fps

Video

ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)

Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L4.0

Format settings, CABAC                   : No

Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames

Codec ID                                 : 27

Duration                                 : 10s 52ms

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 32.9 Mbps

Maximum bit rate                         : 48.6 Mbps

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.661

Stream size                              : 39.4 MiB (95%)

PS I just tried 1080i/25fps 1080/25fps & 720p/50fps and they are all clean using the above driftwood patch.  All very interesting. As far as I can tell these patches just set the bit rate and GOP.  Jim do the patches do anything else that you know of?

[Jim_Simon]

Yes, they do.  Nick and friends have been very busy playing with the quantization matrix and other factors used to encode the video.  A great image is about much more than just higher bitrates.

[Guest]

Fair enough re more to better image qualiy than bit rate.  for the moment I guess this is far enough.  At least we know it is a combination of GH2 stock compression settings and the Main Concept filters used in PP CS6.  Since both sides will point the finger at the other the solution seems to be using Pro-Res transcoding or custom firmware.

So no definitive reason for the problem but a better understanding I guess.

[Jim_Simon]

At least we know it is a combination of GH2 stock compression settings and the Main Concept filters used in PP CS6.

We don't even know that.  My clips don't show the artifact in CS6.  Yet software which doesn't use the MainConcept filters does show it.

This is what is frustrating.  There are a lot of variables, but so far not a one which has any consistency.

a better understanding I guess.

I disagree.  Without at least one consistency, we can't really pin down any sort of explanation.

[RetiredBob]

I don't know if this was answered in this thread but did you upgrade to cs6 version 6.03? I had audio problems with .mts files that were solved when I upgraded to version 6.03.