Premiere Pro | Color Management v24.2.1

[johnalmightyx]

Hey guys,

I'm having this issue where I apply my color profile/mgmt settings and it also effects my animations while previewing it in the timeline. However, I believe the render is still normal. Is this something I have to deal with when working with Premiere Pro color mgmt settings? The hue's of my stroke shapes being red changes to a less saturated red.

I'm not sure how this works to be honest. Help.

[Mohan Sharma]

Hi @johnalmightyx ,

Could you kindly see if this page helps solve some of the color management related issues to your setup?

Thanks!

[R Neil Haugen]

We would need to know your system, your monitor, and all color management settings you are using in Premiere. And are the animations of the types made say by the EGP in Premiere, or graphics you have brought in?

[johnalmightyx]

Lol all graphics are made in PR with the pen tool. But the color ICC profile I have is from TFT central for the Samsung Odyssey G8 4K 240hz 2022 model, my OS is

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16-Core Processor
Nvidia 4090 24gbs 
x670E-E Mobo

[R Neil Haugen]

I asked for your Premiere color management settings because they are crucial to setting up to work correctly for CM. So ... the Lumetri panel's Settings tab, the one-stop shop for all Premiere CM settings. Top to bottom ...

[johnalmightyx]

Sorry about that, I dropped the screenshot here.

[R Neil Haugen]

That screen shot shows the CM settings basically turned off. 

For anyone not working on an externally controlled broadcast style viewing system, and if you don't know what that is, you aren't ... Display Color managment should be On. For Mac users, probably Extend dynamic range also.

Auto detect Log and auto tonemap on ... sequence setting to what you want to export/deliver to, and export presets that match the sequence CM.

Display managment for most should be broadcast/gamma 2.4, though web/2.2 is ok. Some Mac users like the QuickTime/gamma 1.96 setting as it looks the same outside premiere on their Mac. That's screwed up then outside the Macverse, but if you never go outside, who cares, right?

[johnalmightyx]

Yeah if I turn it on, it also effects the shapes that I create in Premiere. The red becomes less saturated and adds a tint of oragne even though the values are set to max on the reds. Not sure how it could only effect the footage and not my actually animations?

[R Neil Haugen]

That's ... intriguing. My setup is all torn apart now, so I can't check. With four screens, a full Elements panel, ATEM switcher, tablet, four cameras, and a total of 28 USB devices, it's a full day or two to get the thing completely connected without USB issues between devices & hubs whatnot. I hope to be operational sometime Monday ... and am hoping that's not being too optimisitic.

@Ann Bens  .... any thoughts here?

[johnalmightyx]

It seems like you're a master filmmaker. I value your time and efforts to assist me.

[R Neil Haugen]

Perhaps a master tester, pusher of color, and color workflows. Which I do learn about, and in turn, teach to others. And troubleshooting has always been fun for my brain.  😉

I did get a keyboard base built for and added to my new standing desk. Tomorrow afternoon begins The Move and Setup. Which I do not enjoy. But seems to be necessary to get it all working ...

[Shebbe]

Hi,

It's going to sound counter intuitive but you probably want to disable your colormanagement stuff inside Premiere. You're working on a wider gamut than Rec.709 display. When non managed color data is used maximum red will show max red your display is able to present. But the video standard is actually 'suggesting' that max red is something less saturated. You want to tackle the management at the monitor level first. Your Odyssey should have a profile setting called sRGB. This is what you want to work with when creating or viewing SDR content for web. It will limit the display to match the colorspace used for the common SDR content.

With this you can have a good match with what you create in Premiere and your exports. Further management regarding sRGB and Rec.709 differences and the way videos are displayed throughout different video players/web players is quite a mess to get in to so I wouldn't recommend diving into that just yet.

[R Neil Haugen]

That monitor doesn't have a Rec.709 setting? That would be unusual. Though I will note that I have not found any monitor's out of the box Rec.709 setting even close to that when profiled. But still, it should use the sRGB primaries, right?

[johnalmightyx]

Wow, so sRGB is best? It seemed less vibrant for me. But let me attempt this now.

[Shebbe]

A common misconception with beginners is that a wider gamut monitor can show "more realistic colors" because they are richer etc. But the color of sRGB/Rec.709 maximum red isn't supposed to be more saturated than what you get by setting your monitor's profile to that. By leaving your display profile as "standard" or "native" that red color if no OS level management is present suddenly is perceived different from it's intent. Ideally you should always match your monitor profile (on the monitor itself, not OS) to the content you are creating regardless of whether you're using internal color management or not. This will make sure that data is still seen as intended regardless of where you view it.

Hope that makes sense.

[johnalmightyx]

Yeah but when the content is viewed on my iOS device from YouTube, the reds are at max for the charts that I create when I compare them side-by-side to my monitor. If it wasn't the end result, then it wouldn't be a concern but what I get during the editing process and what is seen on YouTube is more identical when I don't use sRGB.

[Shebbe]

modern iOS devices to my knowledge have P3 displays (wide gamut) but have good color managmenet built in. So Youtube videos should display correctly and not 'oversaturated'. But the takeaway is that you shouldn't rely on reading the data as is when the deliverable is Rec.709 but the monitor displays it as it's native gamut because this will result in undersaturation, when you don't want as much colorfulness in an image, on devices that do have sRGB gamuts or have proper management in place.

[johnalmightyx]

Well I don't neccessarily want a vibrant management system. I just want to show accurate colors, whatever that would take. sRGB just doesn't give me an accurate gamut, some colors should be vibrant red especially when you go 255 on the color wheel while still maintaining an appropriate management to the video file itself via Lumetri Color.

[R Neil Haugen]

Shebbe is quite helpful, and very knowledgeable. 

I would add ... not even a colorist with a Klien spectro and using Calman or ColourSpace can make two identical monitors, sitting side by  side, show exactly the same image to our visual system ... it's been demonstrated over and over and is a massive frustration for colorists. Part of the reason they try to limit what screens a client can see in a client attended session.

Because "make this screen look like that one" is always a losing proposition.

Every screen is different, even the same screen in bright light (park bench at noon) or dim light (bedroom at night) will show the same image differently. The visibilty and shadow and highlight details, color purity and saturation, will vary quite markedly.

So how to pro colorists work? They setup an exactlly calibrated system dead-on to whichever standard they will deliver to. SDR/Rec.709, or some form of HDR. They grade with scopes and monitors calibrated to that standard. And then ... let it go.

NO one ever sees exactly what the colorist saw, no matter how it is delivered. Theatrical, network broadcast or streaming, or even BluRay disc. Because every screen is different. Every viewing situation is different.

Yes, that image on a different device will be different.  And further, it will be different on every other device! So trying to 'shade' the work towards 'better' on one playback device, and moving away from the center standard ... means it will now look far worse on all other devices.

Yea, it's a pain. But it's Reality.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Dear Community Members,
may I jump in with a similar problem on Premiere Pro 24.2.1 which began, when I started to use color management. (Settings in supplement 1.)
Before that, I always got what I saw before rendering the video. I use an Eizo Coloredge CG calibrated to Adobe RGB color space.
Now my video comes out much oversaturated similar to that colors I see when I turn off Colormanagement.
Should I simply turn off CM and let go or is there something I overlook?
Franz

[R Neil Haugen]

There are no video formats that use Abobe RGB for color primaries. NONE. Zippo. That is only used for stills processing in Photoshop.

SDR/Rec.709 uses the sRGB color primaries, and HLG and PQ use Rec.2100 primaries.

Every other screen will be set to typically sRGB for SDR/Rec.709 display. So if you don't match, it is guaranteed your exports will be way off on nearly all other screens.

Change the monitor to fit the job.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Thanks a lot, Neil, for your quick response. I have calibrated my Eizo to Adobe RGB because I'm a photographer first (for 20 years) and have only started with drone video production 3 years ago and never have realized a CM-Problem so far.
Only yesterday when I read that I should turn on CM my problems started. So I tend to turn it off again ...
Regards
Franz

[R Neil Haugen]

I started my portrait studio 40+ years ago, weird as that sounds. Including we had our own full wetlab, as I couldn't stand the variances between prints from the pro labs specializing in pro portrait work. I wanted extremely tight tolerances, and well ... do it yourself, right?

We had 7-8 full time employees at one point ... but that trade is far less than it was. The missus has the portrait studio now, I do video post mostly. But yes, I'm very familiar with stills CM.

Most monitors have options for color space, and that one I'm sure does also. So it should be able to quickly be set to Rec.709.

[Franz_Bruckdorf56]

Interesting story! Photographic Business isn't what it has been before digital succeeded. Neither in portrait, nor in landscape work, what was and still is my thing - now mostly with my drone.
Thanks for the hint with color space management in my Eizo. I found that, though i have calibrated my monitor for Adobe RGB, it automatically recognises other color spaces and uses the correct one if installed, and Rec.709 is one of those my Eizo can work with!
So the mystery is going on inside Premiere. The colors are very different if I use CM (oversaturated) or without (correct and very near to those after rendering).
Wish you a good time! Was a great pleasure to communicate with a Legende! 
All the best
Franz