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Questions about HDR grading, Lumetri missing HDR controls and HDR Display

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
June 21, 2021
4 replies
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Hi all!. I have a new HDR Display, a LG 48CX Oled TV using as a monitor, that I purchased recently because the new feature of Premiere Pro of support HDR directly in Windows.

In fact it works as expected and very happy to see, edit and export in HDR without using external monitor.

But I have some doubts regarding Lumetri color.

I have see that the new Lumetri Color is missing the HDR options, and I noticed that if need to "push" a shot to more nits, I don´t see how to do this. I only can push it using the "Whites" control under Basic Correction. No other controls can allow to me to do things with HDR.

Now the strange thing!. I have a Lumetri Color preset to "convert to HDR" shots in SDR, and that Lumetri effect HAVE the controls for HDR! Wait what?. Yes!.

Of course, this preset do the job pushing highlights and mid tones to a pseudo HDR look (and it works), and if I reset this preset with that version of Lumetri Color to the defaults, I can grade the image in HDR better that the new Lumetri without HDR controls.

So, why delete that options of HDR in Lumetri color if not add a better support of HDR in the new Lumetri color?

I´m missing something or maybe I don´t work like I think that I do? 😄

This topic has been closed for replies.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

The older Lumetri with the separate HDR controls is not actually in the 2021 builds. So that would be a 'legacy' holdover from some time back.

I prefered that myself, but ... working with what we've got:

-The "exposure" control in the Basic tab is the control with the greatest range of moving signal data. So that seems to be the main way to set the overall signal level.

- After setting kind of a 'gross' level with the exposure control, then use the others to set the rest of the image.

Not ideal, but it works mostly sort of.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

R Neil Haugen

Legend

There is a possibility it might work mostly sort of correctly. But on my system, even running the main PrPro app window on my HDR capable monitor ... and going to HDR ... I'll get some banding in the Program monitor when I push things up well into the stratosphere.

Which I don't when I use Transmit Out on that monitor. I checked with Francis about that, and his reply was yes, they know that is still happening on some machines. And yes, it's still more reliable to use a BM/AJA breakout device to HDMI to the HDR monitor. Because then all variables are controllable. And known.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

A

actpowerAuthor

Known Participant

I don´t get any banding or image degradation, in fact is just "perfect", as I tell before, I play a HDR file out of Windows using the media player of the OLED CX, and switch to the HDMI with the same file maximized in Premiere to see full screen and they look the same. So I´m happy in this.

But the main question is WHY there is two Lumetri Color filter, one with HDR controls (legacy, I guess) and another missing that controls, and the Lumetri Color with the HDR controls I feel more better with HDR when I want to push highlights where I want, for example.

Of course that is something that USUALLY I don´t use, but if you have a particular shot underexposed or simply want to make a "effect" to push all the image overhighlights all the way, with the current Lumetri Color controls is more difficult. Or maybe there is other procedures that I unknown.

But for me this new version of Premiere is that I wanted regarding HDR, as I can finally use HDR with the same display. And it works, sure 🙂

R Neil Haugen

Legend

The Program monitor doesn't show HDR properly, even if the monitor you are showing it on is set to HDR and you've got the display color management switch "on" in preferences. That's something they have to change for HDR use but haven't gotten to yet.

So ... you need to use the Transmit Out to a second monitor to see the image. I've done this, it sorta works, but there's a massive difference between the Program monitor and the Transmit Out one.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

A

actpowerAuthor

Known Participant

Hmmm, are you sure?. I can play a HDR video out of Premiere and import that HDR video (in fact you can see it in the video that I shared in my post) and they look exactly the same. I can play that video out of Windows using the media player of the TV and it look exactly like I see it in Premiere in Windows under HDR.

So, I understand when you say that "The Program monitor doesn't show HDR properly, even if the monitor you are showing it on is set to HDR and you've got the display color management switch "on" in preferences"

So, Adobe is lying on this link?:

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/enable-directx-hdr-support.ug.html

Because it works as they say it...so really I don´t understand when you say that it don´t work.

Please, see this photo attached that I take with Premiere displaying an HDR file and the media player that I use displaying the same HDR file. This is not a "massive difference" for sure!

For more info, I´m using the latest version of Adobe Premiere 2021, Windows 10, Geforce RTX 2060 attached via DP 1.4 -> HDMI 2.1 cable to a LG OLED 48CX configured as 10bit, RGB, 4K and HDR at 60Hz

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Have you looked for the FAQ I put on this forum on working in HDR in PrPro at the current time? That might answer some of your questions.

Essentially, we have the ability to set a Rec.2020 sequence in either HLG or PQ, and we have the ability to set the scopes to HDR by right-clicking, setting the color space. In the Project settings you have the options for setting the "graphics white" which is say a white paper in sunlight ... the brightest non-specular tone ... and the suggested starting point is 203.

IF you have a full HDR monitor connected to the GPU and Windows can 'see' to allow you to set that to HDR in Windows, you can set the "display color management" in PrPro's prefs to on, you might sorta be able to even see a representative HDR image in the Program monitor although you'd have a bit better experience probably in the Transmit Out monitor.

As the app itself is not fully designed to show HDR images within the app. Currently, your best bet to view the HDR image is using a dedicated breakout device from either BlackMagic or AJA to a full HDR monitor skipping the GPU entirely.

Lumetri will work to the full limits of the image signal, including any above-100 nits places you have. The Exposure control is actually the one with the most range to it, and can take the upper values the highest.

I'm not that thrilled with working HDR in Premiere at the moment, but it is possible. Sorta mostly.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

A

actpowerAuthor

Known Participant

Hi Neil!. I have read some useful post from you but I don´t found some explanation about some things.

At first, If I change the sequence to Rec 2020 the colours appears badly with files that are HDR already recorded with my LG V40 phone (I attach a example), but keeping in Rec 709 it works as expected and can edit and see the HDR signal without problems, mix with SDR, make SDR as HDR and that things.

Of course, I have set to on the option of display color management, otherwise I cannot see HDR in Windows.

In fact, I have created a videotutorial explaining this thing and you can see how I can use HDR in Premiere Pro under Windows, without external cards and monitors, the link jump in the TC where I can set that option and Premiere works in HDR, and the video itself is in HDR10 recorded with mi LG V40 phone.

https://youtu.be/bUwhOZiBEKE?t=606

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