Copy link to clipboard
Copied
I’m a video editor working on a PC with the latest version of Premiere Pro, collaborating with a client who uses a Mac. I handle the editing and send over the project files for reviewing, while the client handles the final export.
Previously, my workflow involved interpreting iPhone footage (Rec. 2100 HLG) to Rec. 709, placing it on a Rec. 709 timeline, and editing in 2.4 Broadcast Viewer Gamma. However, my client has raised concerns that the colors aren’t appearing as expected and has asked me to revise our workflow.
The client’s suggested workflow involves interpreting the footage from Rec. 2100 HLG to Rec. 2020, adding it to a Rec. 709 timeline, and editing in 1.96 QuickTime Viewer Gamma.
The final video is uploaded to Vimeo. Could someone suggest an appropriate workflow or help me understand why my original process didn’t produce accurate colors for the client? They mentioned that the export results vary even when changing only the Viewer Gamma settings. I always believed that Viewer Gamma only affects how the video appears within Premiere and does not impact the final export.
If you don't use the same color management, which has dramatically shifted in Pr25.x, you've got a problem. And if one is on a Mac without Reference modes, the other on a Mac with Reference modes and ALL other systems .... you have a separate problem.
First, for iPhone media in general, neither of you were doing what should be done in V25 and forward.
Lumetri SETTINGS tab, the one NAMED Settings
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
If you don't use the same color management, which has dramatically shifted in Pr25.x, you've got a problem. And if one is on a Mac without Reference modes, the other on a Mac with Reference modes and ALL other systems .... you have a separate problem.
First, for iPhone media in general, neither of you were doing what should be done in V25 and forward.
Lumetri SETTINGS tab, the one NAMED Settings
Viewing Gamma and Monitor Issue
The long used and professionally required display transform for Rec.709 video is essentially gamma 2.4.
That is used on nearly everything ...including Macs with Reference modes set to HDTV ... except ...
Macs without Reference modes use a display transform of essentially gamma 1.96 for Rec.709 video media on their monitors.
Do you see the problem there? You cannot display an image with two separate display transforms with large differences in the shadow regions and get the same image on screen.
But ... even Macs without Reference modes can get a sample display of the difference. Have them look at the same video clip QuickTime Player, Chrome and/or Safari, then in VLC and PotPlayer, and YouTube/Vimeo while using Firefox browser. And compare the image most other users will see versus what they've seen in QuickTime Player.
So as to your situation, and for many editors, the next bit is crucial.
What is your client's Mac, do they understand why there is a 'gamma' difference, and what do they want to do about it?
That is the often thorny other issue you face. Many Mac users insist that their Mac is essentially perfect, and shows the proper image ... and will not hear about any differences with other stupid WRONG non-Mac junk. They refuse to check with VLC/Potplayer/Firefox.
And some simply state "but those are not properly color managed apps". But that is only "color managed" by the OS ... which is more color-mangled than managed.
Those apps actually use the correct display transform on more systems than QuickTime Player.
Unfortunately, the editors who are rather Mac-centric often don't realize that they are in a smallish screen minority. But if that is the client, well ... they pays the bills, they sets the rules.
If they are wiser, and listen to professional advice, you may get a very different set of rules. But you have to bring this up and see what they require you to do.
If they require you to work to the lighter Mac-without-Reference gamma, set your rig's Viewing Gamma to 1.96/Quicktime, while working for them. And send them their stuff, and IF they set their Premiere color management as I suggest above, everying will be as they want.
For your general work, for others ... as I doubt you are in that nearly-blackened room colorists work in ... the normal "bright room" gamma for Rec.709 video is actually, by the proper standard! ... the gamma 2.2/Web option.
Not because it's for the Web ... which is a misnomer. Nearly all computer monitors actually use gamma 2.4 for Rec.709 video. Gamma 2.2 for sRGB media is a stills thing, NOT a Rec.709 video thing. And most of the monitors I've been around are set to work accordingly with Rec.709 media when left on their auto settings for such things.
ONLY use the gamma 2.4/broadcast Viewing Gamma setting when you are in a darkened room while working.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
In the 24.x cycle, they added the Settings tab in Lumetri, and put all CM stuff there.
But in 25.x, they added a TON of new functions.
Among several other things.
We aren't quite up to the options list of Resolve yet ... but we're a lot closer.
And remember, Resolve started as a $250,000 per seat color grading app. Before BlackMagic bought it, to use as a loss-leader to sell hardware.
And I've enough BM hardware purchased to have extra "Studio" licenses for Resolve.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hi Neil,
As we continue sorting things out with my client, we’ve noticed something puzzling.
Premiere recognizes the iPhone footage as Rec. 2100 HLG, while Sony Catalyst identifies it as Rec. 2020/HLG.
What’s your take on this? Which one is true?
I've attached screenshots for reference.
Interestingly, I came across a similar discussion about color issues with iPhone 15 Pro Max footage on the Blackmagic forum:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=196179
I’m determined to figure this out, but the deeper I dig, the more problems I seem to run into.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
I forgot to attach the screenshots
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Maybe it's a Premiere's fault recognizing the footage as a Rec. 2100?
Just used VLC to get info about it and it says the same as Sony Catalyst ...
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Actually I've never seen HLG identified as other than Rec.2100, which is a subset of Rec.2020.
I've worked with iPhone media from a number of users, and anytime I've dropped it on MediaInfo it's shown 2100.
Intriguing stuff, color spaces.