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SONY codecs XAVCS and AVCHD

Community Beginner ,
Sep 27, 2017 Sep 27, 2017

Hi

I have shot videos with Sony a7s I in both these codecs (AVCHD & XAVC) and I would like to know whether I can mix both in the same Premiere Pro sequence or if I should rather edit choosing one or the other in which case which one would be best and how could I convert the other files ?

I am using the latest CC version of Premiere Pro on a MacOS Sierra 10.12.6.

Regards

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , Sep 27, 2017 Sep 27, 2017

Try it.  Then you'll know.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 27, 2017 Sep 27, 2017

Try it.  Then you'll know.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 27, 2017 Sep 27, 2017

Thanks for that great philosophical answer !

Always good to start with that principle in mind before asking anything to anybody else indeed

This being said

I did tried and APP gave me a File Import Failure message with the import of the AVCS files but it then actually did import them in MP4 format.

Would have any idea why does APP do that ..?

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LEGEND ,
Sep 27, 2017 Sep 27, 2017

The codec does not matter when editing - what matters when choosing a Sequence to work in is -

  • Frame Size
  • Frame Rate
  • Fields (upper/lower/progressive?)
  • Pixel Aspect Ratio

Let's assume you shot all your clips at 1080p60. Would not matter if they were AVCHD or XAVC - just choose a 1080p60 Sequence preset, mix the footage in the timeline, and edit away.

I've done multi-camera shoots that mixed ProRes 422, AVCHD, and HDV footage. All cameras shooting 1080i. Simply chose a 1080i sequence preset and they all mixed just fine.

If the clips have different resolutions or frame rates, then some thought must go into the best solution to mix them.

In general, I just go straight to the AVCHD presets and pick the one that matches the parameters of the footage, as bulleted above.

I should note that you could compare 1080p60 presets for ARRI, AVCHD, and DSLR for example and you'd find that they they all have the same settings inside them, so doesn't matter which you work with as long as it matches the footage attributes. In fact, if you drop some footage into Premiere and let it choose the sequence for you, it often goes with ARRI just because alphabetically, it finds the first sequence to match the footage and goes with it. But an ARRI sequence does not mean the footage must be from an ARRI camera at all.

EDIT: if you know that the two kinds of clips have the same specs (like 1080p60), then drop one of them into an empty timeline sequence and Premiere will ask if you want to change settings to match the clip. Say Yes. This sets up the Sequence to match the clip for you. Good to go.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Safe Harbor Computers

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 27, 2017 Sep 27, 2017

Thanks a lot for that very thorough answer !

I have imported all my AVCHD and XAVC (converted in MP4 by APP - why ..? ) and regarding what you just wrote,

I must add that I have not only shot in these two different formats, first of all because I wasn't really sure which one to choose ..

but most of all because I started using XAVC for its 100fps possibilities (with slow-motion in mind) before I realised the image on my monitor was cropped so I got a bit puzzled and switched to AVCHD so that I could get a larger field of view (on my monitor at least - not knowing how the cropped XAVC would come out once imported in APPb..).

So now I have

25 fps AVCHD files 1920x1080

and

100 fps XAVC (mp4) files 1280x720

I intend to make a clip for web publication.

I know that AVCHD offers overall better image quality but greatly slows down APP workflow

and that XAVC (MP4) is more suitable for quick editing/rendering and that it has sufficient quality for web viewing.

So now if I choose to first drop a (XAVC) MP4 file to create a sequence alike, I will then have to set the frame size of all the AVCHD files that I drop after to the same size as the sequence, which will require a bit of rendering time but I guess that's the price to pay ..

Would you perhaps recommend me to do otherwise ..?

ps :

now that you said it, I still have to find out what fields and pixel aspect ratio have to do with editing since it seems also important

Most grateful Thanks to you !

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LEGEND ,
Sep 29, 2017 Sep 29, 2017

Not an A7S expert, but I'd guess from past camera experience that you could record 1080p using XAVC S mode if you wanted to, but when choosing the higher frame rates (for slow mo) it forces the camera down to 720p mode.

In Premiere Preferences, you can set Default Scale to Frame and then if you import 720p clips and drop them into a 1080p sequence, they just automatically fit (changing this setting does not affect clips that were already imported previous to changing the setting). Nothing to scale or render, works automatically behind the scenes. 720p clips can look fine in a 1080p sequence, but you might consider the delivery options and decide that 720p delivery would work in which case the sequence could be 720p, then you are not "blowing up" any clips. 1080p of course scales down to 720p beautifully.

I don't believe you are correct about AVCHD being much slower to edit than .mp4 though.

IMPORTING - copy entire contents of SD card to a NEW folder on your hard drive. Do not cherry-pick the video clips - copy ALL folders directly over from SD card, keep it all intact as it was on the card. Then in Premiere, use Media Browser to import clips, rather than File > Import. This solves a lot of issues.

Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) -  the shape of the pixels (dots) making up your video image. Pixels are typically square (1.0 PAR), especially with still images. Some video formats use non-square pixels. In NTSC-land, DV video (720x480) used 0.9 PAR for 4:3 video and 1.2 for 16:9 wide video. Note that the DV resolution was always the same, being 720x480 pixels, but by making the pixels wider (rectangular) it produced widescreen video as a result!

Non-square pixels are also used for "thin raster" HD video formats. When HDV came out many years back, they needed to somehow fit HD video onto the same miniDV cassettes meant to hold SD video. In order to do this, they compromised the resolution of the 1080i video, making it just 1440x1080 rather than the full 1920x1080 pixels. They made this work by using a 1.333 PAR. Use less pixels to save room in the compressed file, and just make the pixels wider to make up for it! Simple math shows how this works. 1440 x 1.333 = 1920 on playback.

Modern cameras shooting 720p or 1080p all use square pixels usually, although some may still offer an optional lower quality 1440x1080 recording option to get longer record times on the SD card.

Progressive vs. Interlaced - back in the days of SD video, NTSC and PAL (what you watched on TV broadcasts) were Interlaced video signals. Old TVs with CRT technology scanned the image lines onto the screen one row at a time, top to bottom, causing phosphor dots to glow briefly. However, in the time it took to draw all the lines top to bottom to make a complete image (frame of video), the dots at the top of the screen had already started to lose brightness. This would cause a flicker when new (bright) lines were drawn over the fading dots of the previous frame.

In NTSC (US), there are 29.97 frames of video each second. The 1/30th second "refresh" between drawing frames of video was too long. In Europe, they use PAL which is 25fps.

The fix was interlaced video. They broke a single frame of video into two fields. A field is half a frame, made up of the even or odd scan lines only (also called upper or lower fields). A field of video could be drawn in just 1/60th of a second (using 59.94fps to be precise) which is half the time of a frame, and before the dots of the first field could lose their glow, the second field was drawn in to "fill in the blanks" and complete a frame. This eliminated the image flicker, however...when a camera is shooting video using fields, objects in the frame that are moving will change position between one field and the next, so the even and odd fields may not completely match thus a strange motion artifacting is introduced.

Think of a stationary camera, aimed at a standing person. If the person is waving his/her arms, the arms will be in different positions on each field (second field grabbed 1/60 of a second later than first), so they get duplicated when the two fields are blended into a frame. It does happen so quickly though that the eye perceives smooth motion when watching the video, but if we pause the video when editing, or add slow-motion, then we see more of the issue.

When HD video first came out, 1080i was the standard (as HDV), which was 1920x1080 interlaced. There was also 720p and later 1080p.

So what is Progressive video? Progressive means that every frame is complete - there are no fields. 720p30 means video is recorded as 29.97 complete frames every second. Same for 1080p30. 24p video grabs 23.976 frames per second. I believe you use PAL, so that is 25fps. The camera shutter opens and the entire scene - the frame of video - is saved at once. The downside is that at low frame rates, motion can look choppy, for instance a fast camera pan, or someone running through the scene, as the subject moves a lot from one frame to the next. The scene changes in 30 steps per second. While NTSC or 1080i also used the same 30 frames per second, those 30 frames were broken into 60 fields to provide 60 steps per second. Much less change happening between fields = smoother perceived motion.

What this means for the videographer shooting 24p, 25p, or 30p is that they have to be conscious to not move the camera too fast for instance, to keep motion smooth. I should mention that when CRTs were replaced by LCD and LED flat-panels, we no longer had to worry about phosphor dots losing their glow - progressive video looks fine and does not flicker. Many editors see 1080i as a curse and wish interlaced video would just die already! It causes lots of issues in many ways and most editors can live without it. Interlaced video made sense to work with old CRT TV sets, but there is really no need/no use for it with modern HD displays, which are by their very nature and design, progressive.

720p60 has been around longer than 1080p60, for the simple reason that older cameras could not handle processing and storing 60 frames of HD video every second at 1920x1080 - that's a lot of data - basically twice as much as 1080i which was storing just 30 frames per second. The 720p frame size of 1280x720 was easier to accommodate at 60p. Most new cameras now offer 1080p60, or beyond. However, moving up to 4k, we get back to the same situation that most cameras cannot handle 4kp60 and are limited to 30p recording, but in time that will also change.

Just did a Google search for "interlaced video" and got a million hits for descriptions and sample images, try it and it will illustrate the above ramblings.

Back to Sequence Settings, 1080i is the only HD format that is interlaced, and it is always Upper Field. In the US, with the 29.97fps standard, 1080i goes by different names but all representing ONE format. Might be 1080i29.97, 1080i30, 1080i59.94, or 1080i60. ALL MEAN THE SAME. In PAL countries with 25fps standard, you have 1080i25 or may be called 1080i50. The 60 or 50 referring to fields.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Safe Harbor Computers

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LEGEND ,
Sep 29, 2017 Sep 29, 2017

h2olilve  wrote

Hi

I have shot videos with Sony a7s I in both these codecs (AVCHD & XAVC) and I would like to know whether I can mix both in the same Premiere Pro sequence

Yes you can mix both without issues.

or if I should rather edit choosing one or the other in which case which one would be best and how could I convert the other files ?

If you are asking if you need to convert one format to another to make all the files the same format to use in an edit, the answer is no.

You can edit the two codecs to the same timeline without issue - as long as the frame size and frame rate are the same.

In terms of making a choice as to which format to shoot in - the XAVC is superior in many ways to AVCHD, but at the cost of file space and a more complex compression scheme.

MtD

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 16, 2018 Feb 16, 2018
LATEST

lately but surely, many thx !

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