Why Do My Premiere Pro Exports Look Washed Out? [QT Gamma Compensation LUT]

[NickiDoane]

Hi There, 

Months ago I found a download here I think for the QT Gamma Compensation LUT ... I just updated my mac and now the file is a .cube and I don't know how to change it to a usable file again. Help? Does anyone know where I can find the file again to download & use?

[Moderator edited subject line. This issue relates to how a video exported from Premiere Pro might look different from how it appeared inside Premiere Pro. After export, the video may appear "too light" or "washed out". ]

[R Neil Haugen]

And if Apple hadn't been so idiotic about their color management, we wouldn't have the problem. Because it is totally Apple's creation. 

And even within Apple machines, it's not consistent! 

Macs without reference modes get the flipping gamma/chroma shift thing (as there are two parts to the problem).

But Macs WITH reference modes, set to HDTV, see the same display transform image that all non-Mac users see!

So the problem is only on Macs without reference modes. Thanks, Apple ...

[jonathang66658574]

Agreed. So many other programs that are cheaper that don't have this problem. 

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

In my simple humble knowlege, I been suffering for more than 15 months about colors are not maching the premiere pro after export till i figure out follow thing:

1- If you export for web usage: Youtube , FB, Instagram and others , displayed on PC Monitor or iPhone or iPad ,,, the best way is to set up the project settings as color on Viewer Gamma 2.2 (WEB) , exporting HEVC  with match sequnce settings, render at maximum depth check , Used maximum render quality check , High Tier, CBR 80 ( 4K ) , in this way, all OK , the Video is everywhere as it was edited in Premiere pro 

2- If you looking to play the youtube OR the exported video on a TV Screen, just add the Gamma compensation Lut on filters at export, then your video will be matched everywhere as been edited in Premiere Pro 

[R Neil Haugen]

 Make a new sequence, say 1920x1080. Put a Bars & Tone on it, to get that pluge. Stretch it out to maybe 30 seconds. 

Now export with that 'gamma compensation LUT' on it, as you suggest. View it on the TV.

See what the pluge looks like, especially the dark sections that are supposed to show the shadow limits. Post back your results.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

Dear Neil,

I did exactly what you said, the rsult is:

i have color banding 

the dark grey color in the down area is not that visibil 

conclusion: am totally confused 

i just uploaded a podcast worked as web 2.2 and exported asi mentioned previosly , looks like washed up no colors and flat 

am really confused .

my monitor was Rec 709 and 2.4 Gamma, now am swetching back to SRGB and working on 2.4 , knowing for sure is what am seeing on my premiere pro display is not what am going to have after i export from premiere pro in HEVC with gamma compensation filter applied.

am working on PC, if you suggest me a workflow, you simply saved me a 1 year course that am going to do on Davnici Resolve ,, am really tired of this  

[R Neil Haugen]

Hey, color can be so freaking confusing and frustrating! Every so often I need to re-do my calibration, and I always put it off too far because i hate the entire calibration process. It's mind-numbingly boring, and it's so darn easy to miss something ... and have to redo the entire half hour process you just 'completed'.

And then running that profile pass, Colourspace using Resolve as the TPG ... to check the calibration. And the resultant chart is ... just ... not quite ... close enough. I've got to tweak something, and do the whole flipping thing again. 

Typically takes at least a half day for me. I've had colorists tell me if I did this righteously every 3-4 weeks, I'd get it down to an hour and a half, two hours. Haven't done that yet.

Banding can come from two things ... as especially with an H.264/HEVC export, the block method that is used for compression will cause both blocky artifacts and banding if the data rate drops below what is needed for any part of an export.

What I mean by "block" is the encoding process looks at say 4, 6, 8, 9, or 12 pixel "blocks", and if they're all within a point or two between R, G, and B values, they save data rate by turning the entire block to X/Y/Z rather than their original pixel values. So a smooth gradient is now a series of 'small' ... but noticeable ... jumps.

So how do you know what bitrate and encoding process (Main, High, what profile 4.1, 5, whatever ... ) is needed?

Test. Export, and if you get banding/blocking artifacting, up the bitrate or process encoding level.

The other way to get banding is normally with 8 bit media ... with only the 255 value levels black to white ... stretching any part of that clip much for color correction, or for color space changes, can cause visible 'breaks' where there isn't a couple neighboring 'levels' anymore.

That is why it is incredibly important that all 8 bit media be exposed as close to "perfect" for that job as possible, and to have been properly white-balanced in camera to also be close to final white balance. As any needed visual changes to exposure, contrast curve, and white balance can result in banding at times.

I will add that some cameras that say they produce "10 bit" ... produce extremely thin 10 bit. You do hardly any pushing of that in color, you get blocking/banding/aritfacting. Which you shouldn't with really correct, full 10 bit media.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

let's put a side the color banding...

about the project color settings, do you recommend follow:

color space broadcast 2.4 and export with Gamma compnesation effect ?

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

i like the video how its displayed in 2.4 project , once i export it without gamma filter, its looks like washed out without colors, once i export it gamma compensation filter, its looks like darks.. am totally cofused 

[R Neil Haugen]

Are you on a Mac? If so, does it have "Reference modes"?

And if on a Mac, what does that look like in say VLC as compared to QuickTime Player?

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

I work on PC ,, i use to have rec709 color on monitor ,, am switching back right now to srgb 

if you want,, i can sent you 2 links for the same video : one worked into a project of web 2.2 and the other one on project broadcast 2.4 used gamma compensation effect on export :

this is web : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m56UY6Ngc_M

this is sample of broadcast 2.4 with gama compensation effect on export: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjh83BHKMVg 

[R Neil Haugen]

On your own monitor, make sure the settings are both in the GPU if available and on the monitor, 'auto' or 'video' levels for Rec.709. Do NOT set anything to 'full'. Nvidia's GPUs have a control panel available on the computer, and you can mess with video settings there. Again, do not set that to Full.

And if the monitor has them, do not set those to 'full' either. 

The other thing I can comment about is ... what cameras are you using? Do they have a 'full' setting for Rec.709 media? If so, do not use that. It is incorrect for Rec709 media, and it does nothing to get wider dynamic range or more levels, it just changes how the levels are encoded to the file.

And ... all monitors and TVs expect Rec.709/YUV (Y/Cb-Cr) media to be encoded 'legal', and automatically 'expand' the display of that to full. So if your media is full to begin with, then you get too much expansion of data, perhaps dark/crushed shadows and blown whites.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

Great Thanks Neil.. please take a look at actual settings in photos attached 

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

as cameras, am using the sont fx6 , s-log 3

[R Neil Haugen]

For the camera, which gamma curve? And XAVC Intra or Long?

I presume in Premiere's color management you have auto detect log and auto tonemapping on, Display color management, and viewer gamma 2.4, sequence is 2.4?

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

Camera: S-Gamut3.Cine/Slog-3 XAVI-I 4K , 23.98 

attached also the photo of premiere settings 

please take a look and let me know if i have any mistakes in settings 

[R Neil Haugen]

Right off, auto detect log should be on. That's interactive with auto tonemapping, by the way.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

am keeping the auto detect log color space off because i add the phantom lot ( log to rec 709 )

isn't better ?

[R Neil Haugen]

When are you applying that ... at the export? Because if so, no that is not a correct place.

Color space conversions need to occur as part of the working space process. Need to be visible as you are working. Or you cannot possibly get a correct output.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

For sure , yes exactly this what i do , i apply the lut log to rec709 on the lumetri creative panel ,, some time i keep it 80% or little or more little less depends on desired color i want 

is that ok ?

[R Neil Haugen]

Which precise LUT ... and got from where?

And I'm curious why you prefer that over the tonemapping in Premiere. And ... if you don't have auto detect log on, I'm not sure auto tonemapping does anything useful.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

phantom luts - Fx6 Phntm ARRI LUTs-G6 - Neutral Fx6

seems that by auto detect log and auto tone map looks better 

may i had old and not updated workflow !!?

[R Neil Haugen]

LUTs and tonemapping are different paths that can be attempts to get to similar places. But tonemapping is based on algorithms not pre-cooked charts, so more options of if this then that not that can be incorporated. And at times it can be safer for your pixels.

So I do recommend trying the detect log/tonemapping pairing and seeing if that gets you to as good or better a starting space. In my testing, for most media, it does. For some high-end work, they do need to still use very specific LUTs for specific cameras.

The conversion LUTs, just like the tonemappings from various makers, all have a certain amount of aesthetic choices in them. None are "the only proper and correct view of this camera's sensor" ... they are  all one potentially  useful view of that camera's sensor output/internal math processing.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

Dearest Neil,

    You Just saved me totally 🙂

looks like with monitor advices you gave it to me and auto detect log + auto tone mapping every thing is totally different right now 🙂 

Million thanks are not enough 🙂

the only issue that i have to dig deeper for now is the color banding on youtube 🙂

Again : Really Thank you so much 

[R Neil Haugen]

Hey, it's just nice to help things get out better for people! This stuff can be so flipping complicated ... sheesh. You just wanna get stuff out, right?

And  for banding on YouTube that you don't see on your computer before upload, that's typically a recoding issue as to what they do to it after they get it. Wait at least 12 hours to a day to check as they can take some time to fully recode stuff ... which they always do.

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

i will try that and i will let you know about it