Match Frame to Source Sequence

[andreas4617789]

When cutting from a Source Sequence, it would be great to be able to match frame to that same frame in the Source Sequence (not to the original clip).

For example, if I have a series of 20 resets in my source, and I am not sure which one I used in the cut, all I need to do is use this 'FIND FRAME IN SOURCE SEQ' command to take me exactly to that point. Then I can see what else I might want to use and try that as an alt.

Sure, I could do that from the original clip but:

- then I'd have to get back to the source sequence.

- I also wouldn't have a way of marking things on the Source Sequence (which is the whole point of stringouts)

[david.parke]

Been looking for this and an actual functional reverse match frame since switching back to premiere as my day to day. Miss these features from avid a lot. 

[Andrew C. Brinsmead]

being able to match frame to a sequence in a source monitor in Adobe Premiere Pro would be extremely advantageous!  I do a lot of long form documentary editing, and this is the only thing that Avid Media Composer does that I miss (after spending 30 years editing on Avid).  This feature would be a fantastic benefit to Premiere Pro!

[alexs19751423]

This would be a very welcome and useful addition. This workflow is in most longform broadcast and HETV Avid editors everyday toolkit. It vastly simplifies workflow when your brain is focussing on the creative and not where shots are located. In tandem with this would be the ability to toggle between source and sequence timelines using a single button (it is the escape key in Avid). There is a Premiere function to toggle source/program monitors but NOT timelines. Please give us a timeline toggle. 

[andreas4617789]

@alexs19751423  there is a shortcut to toggle between open timelines on PPro. I don't know what it is on the default keyboard cos my keyboard is a total mashup.

[Nick Lear]

This would make a massive difference to editors who store selects or takes in sequences (which is a lot of us) and want to match back and forth between those.

Just to explain a bit more for people not sure what this is. Pancake editing in Premiere with the selects sequence opened in a timeline "Source monitor > Spanner > Open Sequence in Timeline" is fanstastic for inserting from the source timeline to the current edit timeline. But it would be even better if you could match frame from the edit timeline back to your selects sequence. For example (drama) you have take 4 and you want to see what the alt takes were or (doc) you have a B roll shot and you want to see some alternate shots.

[Jeff Drake]

Matching from timeline to Source timeline is the way Match Frame SHOULD work. With Source window selected, tap Match Frame again and then get the Subclip, if it exists. Then tap Match Frame again and load the source clip. To go one step further, press Match Frame again and show the source in the bin! (Do I need to say that I really dislike the contextual menu that stretches from the top of the screen to the bottom?)

[alexs19751423]

I'm aware of that shortcut but it's not ideal and it wouldn't really help me. The escape key is surely one of the most used keys in Avid along with all the obvious one. 

[alexs19751423]

The point being, working as per your request, upon match frame the source sequence opens in the source monitor - you then press escape (or whatever key) and you can see the source timeline. 

[MyerPj]

Ctrl-Shift-F

right?

[Jeff Drake]

Ctrl-Shift-F loads the sequence into the timeline, which is not quite the behavior we're looking for. While this would be helpful for screening the footage around the selected frame, what do you do after that? If you find something to use that's part of this Source sequence, you have to copy the timecode of the playhead position, load the sequence into the Source window, paste the timecode for playhead position, mark in and out, THEN you can actually insert or overwrite it into the sequence. If Match Frame would load the source sequence into the Source monitor, you are ready to insert or overwrite with one click.

[Mathias Moehl]

I just implemented this tool in Automation Blocks for Premiere Pro for you - does it implement what you need?

If this is what you need, just

1) download the xml file of the tool

2) install the Automation Blocks trial (download)

3) in the menu of Automation Blocks in Pr click the "load" button to load the xml file.

4) use the tool as shown in the video above

If you want to use the tool on a regular basis, copy it to your Automation Blocks user library to save step 3).

[Trevor_Asq]

What would be really cool would be some kind of metadata in the clip that pointed to the source sequence it came from so match frame first looks for the source selects sequence (like it first pulls up the multicam clip).

Obvs you *could* do this by editing from selects as nested sequences, but there's heaps of reasons not to do that.

At an extreme you might have:

SeqA - autosequenced Original Camera Files (IE so seqTC = cam TC)

SeqB - SeqA with gaps removed

Seqs C1, C2 etc - B sorted into selects of SOTs, GVs, BRoll, whatever

SeqD - Rough assembly

SeqE - current edit

So each key press of 'sequence match frame' would cycle back through D-> Cn -> B -> A -> source clip. 

Easy, right? 😉

[alexs19751423]

@Trevor_Asq 

that would be nice but also blue-sky thinking and I think too complicated. Just the original suggestion would do me.  (On another note, I have to say this forum is terrible for discussion)

[Trevor_Asq]

@Mathias Moehl Just saw the embedded video (it doesn't show up if I'm logged in) - that is interesting. 

Notes:
1. Only 'match frames' if the source sequence is visible (e.g. loaded in source monitor and 'load sequence in timeline' activated). 
Be good for the 'source' sequence label to be a drop down of sequences in the project. 
Also, if not loaded with timeline visible, for Run to load the source sequence and pancake the source timeline.

2. 'Run' goes through all video tracks - so if, for example, you have 3 x clips on V1,2,3 and they are all in the source sequence too, then it will flash the matches to V3 and V2 before showing V1.

I think that desired behaviour would be that the track lights in the main sequence are obeyed (like 'match frame' - if V3 V2 V1 all enabled then it matches V3, if V2 V1 enabled then it matches V2. Highest video track is supreme. Match also does audio tracks where A1 is supreme). 

[Mathias Moehl]

@Trevor_Asq this is very good feedback!

Currently, the Automation Blocks UI does not support a dropdown for sequences, unfortunately. You can create a dropdown of texts, but there is no way to populate this with the sequences. Same for loading something in the source monitor - it is not supported, yet.

Also Automation Blocks cannot "see" yet, which tracks are enabled. I had this request several times during the last weeks, so it is likely that I will add this at some point. Bottom line: We just have the first release of Autoamtion Blocks and this release has pretty comprehensive coverage of managing project items, but with sequences and tracks, there are still some gaps. Your feedback is really helpful, since it helps me to decide, which features are most wanted such that I can give them priority.

[Trevor_Asq]

No problem @Mathias Moehl 

Couple more questions:

Seems like you can only have one function loaded to 'run' at a time?

Ideally I'd be able to use keyboard shortcuts to run different functions.

Secondly I assume you can't have a function constantly running? eg (once you can read state of track lights) to emulate avid's autopatch?

[Mathias Moehl]

@Trevor_Asq :

In After Effects,  Automation Blocks tools can be executed with keyboard shortcuts, but in Premiere Pro not. The reason is that Premiere Pro does not allow extensions to register keyboard shortcuts, unfortunately.

Also, the tools cannot run permanently in the background. I think Premiere Pro does not allows this to extensions, since they could impact the performance quite a lot.

There is one other solution to execute Automation Blocks tools in addition to loading and running them in the Automation Blocks user interface: Other extensions can send events to Autoamtion Blocks and ask it to run a particular tool. So if you have custom automations already, Automation Blocks can be integrated seamlessly: https://docs.mamoworld.com/automation-blocks/executeScriptsCEPEvents

[cdavid1760]

Would Excalibur be useful in creating shortcuts for this?

[Trevor_Asq]

@Mathias Moehl  Excalibur is an extension that does appear to have access to keyboard shortcuts - not sure how I can get it to run an automation blocks script though.

[Mathias Moehl]

Excalibur uses a dirty workaround: It monitors your keyboard in the background, which has undesired side-effects. It does not know, for example, if a popup dialog is currently open (in which case all keyboard input should go into that dialog and keyboard shortcuts should not fire). I really want to avoid implementing such a dirty hack. That would give you three separate places where you would need to configure your shortcuts (Pr itself, Excalibur and Automation Blocks) and two keyboard monitoring processes in the background.
But with the CEP events provided by Automation Blocks, it should be absolutely doable for Excalibur to execute Automation Blocks tools with CEP events. Maybe you can send the developer of Excalibur a feature request for that? 

[cdavid1760]

One can contact Ivan Stepanov here. He's very responsive. https://knightsoftheeditingtable.com/about

[cdavid1760]

One can contact Ivan Stepanov here. He's very responsive. https://knightsoftheeditingtable.com/about

[Ivan Stepanov]

Sir Mathias, I pray thee, 'tis not dirty my hands are clean!

Excalibur listens for a shortcut press just to solve a problem.

[Mathias Moehl]

Good to see you here in the thread, @Ivan Stepanov! I wanted to say that there is no proper way offered by Premiere to use keyboard shortcuts. So the only way to solve the problem is a "dirty" hack. What do you think about adding a feature to Excalibur to execute Automation Blocks tools? I think two places where users manage keyboard shortcuts is enough 🙂 

[Ivan Stepanov]

Sir @Mathias Moehl,

What do you think about adding a feature to Excalibur to execute Automation Blocks tools? I think two places where users manage keyboard shortcuts is enough 🙂

I'm thinking of something even better than just linking Excalibur and Automation Blocks. I hope in 1-2 months I can show it to you.