Encore CS6: Transcoding Issue?

[Page D]

I have a project I've finished in Prem Pro CS6, and want to burn a DVD using Encore. When I try to do this, the resulting disc contains issues at a couple of specific points in the footage. The issue on each occasion is in the form of a repeated frame, this repeated frame being at the place where the subsequent frame should have been but instead is missing and the footage, in effect, jumps forward one frame and continues onwards from there, as normal.

The footage appears perfectly fine in Premiere Pro. The footage appears perfectly fine in Encore before you proceed to build a DVD disc or a DVD folder. As soon as Encore transcodes the footage, the errors appear in the timeline within Encore, and any disc or folder produced by Encore after this transcode has these errors in them.

[Stan Jones]

Are you sending to EN as dynamic link? If so, I would instead, export from PR as MPEG2-DVD and do the bitrate calculations to determine settings.

If you are not using dynamic link, then you need to determine why EN is transcoding your import.

[Page D]

Yes, dynamically linked.

Will try as you suggest. Thanks.

[Stan Jones]

Let us know how it goes.

[Page D]

Yes I will, thanks.

I began to do the export in PR to MPEG2-DVD earlier but it calculated it would take about 6 hours, so aborted and so will start it when I go to bed and let it create the file overnight.

I uninstalled EN and reinstalled it back onto my PC the other day to see if it cleared the issue up, but with no success.

One thing... I am a perfectionist and want the DVD to give the best possible picture and sound quality. I have been setting the export settings to VBR 2-pass, the minimum/taget/maximum bitrates to relatively high levels (5 / 7.5 / 9 mbps respectively), and selecting PCM audio. Is it possible to set these things too high and make the transcode too demanding to create without errors creeping into the resulting file? I have tried to build the file in EN with lower quality settings but it made no difference.

Also, just to say, the prem pro project is only 30 minutes long but it is very complex, multiple timelines, many many edits etc.

[John T Smith]

I can't remember the maximum bit rate to create a "legal" file, but if your 9 mbps is too high, Encore will have to encode again

When you import your audio and video into Encore, what is your transcode status?

Link to DVD Demystified FAQ http://forums.adobe.com/thread/544206 may have more information

[Page D]

Stan, you're a bloody marvel! Thank you so much. I have been trying to solve this headache for weeks. It's worked, minus some solveable teething problems.

I exported to MPEG-DVD within Premiere Pro, using the following settings: VBR 2-pass, Min 5mbps / Target 7.5 mbps / Max 9 mbps datarates, PCM audio.

Opened Encore

Imported the file as an asset (so it comes in as 'Don't Transcode')

Ceated my timeline from the asset (New > Timeline)

Linked up my menu button with the timeline

File > Edit Quality Presets > Set everything the same as per the export settings when exporting in Premiere Pro earlier

Proceeded to build

Finished file plays fine at first glance, but it is a video file only, no audio.

Please could you tell me why the exported file made in Premiere Pro lacked the PCM audio.

Anyway, just to quickly test it with audio, I opened Premiere Pro and exported the audio from the project as a WAV file (PCM/48kHz). Then, in Encore, imported the WAV file, drag and dropped it as my main audio timeline. Proceeded to build.

I get this message:

Is it a question of just exporting the file within Premiere Pro with reduced video file datarates, then replacing the old file with the new file in Encore and trying to see it this message doesn't appear during the Encore build, and if it does, just keep exporting the file within Premiere Pro with a further reduction of the video file datarates, until this message does not pop up?

[Stan Jones]

The MPEG2-DVD format correctly creates 2 files (m2v and wav). You just needed to select both of them when you imported to EN.

In EN, import "as timeline," and this creates the timeline for you.

John's caution about the max bitrate is correct. The max 9 bitrate may work at times, but only a little out of spec on the export from PR will create a problem. Spikes in the bitrate can easily make it illegal. You are setting the video only bitrate, and EN will look at a combined video/audio bitrate.

In EN, do you have the audio setting for Dolby or PCM? That saves some bitrate. You have room on the disk for PCM audio, but the bitrate is higher.

The total size looks fine, so the target bitrate is probably okay. If the video length were longer, using a bitrate calculator can help with setting bitrates.

Since the export time is long, I would do a test with a 5 minute section to see that the settings work. Use a separate EN test project. EN is unforgiving of what ought to be easy changes in a project.

For a simple project like this, I would not try to "replace." Just create a new EN project.

You appear to have done this, but make sure you add the menu to the EN project first - this sets the first play to the menu and avoids the problem of having to manually set the "menu remote."

[Page D]

Will proceed with this, taking your comments on board Stan and John, when I get some time tomorrow and will get back to you, but just to say, when exporting the MPEG2-DVD file in Premiere Pro, I did have both the Export Video and the Export Audio boxes checked. I've also tried once again and it's the same. The resulting m2v file is video only.

[Stan Jones]

Yes, the m2v file is audio only. There should also be a wav file as well. If you don't see this, post a screen shot of your PR export settings.

[Page D]

I'm with you now. I didn't realise the export will be as two separate files, one video and one audio. Thanks.

Which should I choose when first importing the Premiere Pro m2v and WAV files into Encore, Import as an Asset or Import as a Timeline?

Do you recommend a particular free online DVD and Blu-ray bitrate calculator? I've never used one before. Need to find out more about GOP settings.

Edit: I gather by experimenting, that the audio has to be imported as an asset. If it is imported as a timeline it will import onto a different timeline to the video. What about the importing of the video before proceeding with the importing of the audio though, Import Video as an Asset or Import Video as a Timeline?

I've done a very short test export from Premiere Pro using low-ish quality settings, imported the resulting m2v and WAV files into Encore and, yes, it builds without a problem. So now, I need to find out how to properly calculate bitrates using a bitrate calculator and choose settings accordingly for a (PAL system) DVD.

[Stan Jones]

Progress!

From my post 7:

"You … select both of them when you imported to EN." and "In EN, import 'as timeline....'"

So rephrased, the export from PR creates an m2v AND a wav. In EN, you "import as timeline" and you select BOTH the m2v and wav.

My favorite bitrate calculator:

http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php

[Page D]

Done it just the way you said, without a problem. Didn't figure it would let me import two files simultaneously as timeline. Great stuff.

Yes, progress indeed thanks to you and John. Cannot thank you both enough.

Already came across the bitrate calculator you cite. Need to carefully work my way through the various settings to enable me to create a DVD of the highest bitrate allowed, whilst favouring PCM as the audio format (if I possibly can).

One question, and perhaps it's an obvious one. Why doesn't Encore just transcode the file without the errors I encountered? Is it just that Encore is very buggy and Premiere Pro less so?

Do you recommend always building DVDs (using MPEG2-DVD setting in Premiere Pro) or Blu-rays (using h.264 Blu-Ray setting in Premiere Pro) in this way, even if leaving the transcoding to Encore doesn't seem to cause any issues to a resulting disc?

[Stan Jones]

The preferred method is exporting from PR.

You can actually  set Encore to transcode using Adobe media encoder. That may also produce better results. But exporting from Premier generally will produce the best results as long as you check to see that it shows as "do not transcode" in Encore.

[Page D]

Thank you.

I have tried to build a DVD using the lowest quality settings for the build in Encore (including selection of the inferior Dolby Digital audio format) but it throws up the same pop up error message as I uploaded in my post #6. I thought that by selecting very low quality settings, it would have allowed a build which included the audio, without issue.

So, the next thing I assume is to export in Premiere Pro once again, but use the bitrate calculator to set more appropriate settings for the export, in order to keep any resulting DVD legal.

Going out soon for a meal this evening, so will continue with this tomorrow.

[Media Editor]

Try DVD Styler.  It is a free program.

[Page D]

Thank you for your suggestion, Michael, but I want to be able create bespoke media menu screens in Photoshop and tailor it with on-screen buttons, their appearance with which I have full control over. I cannot do this in DVDStyler. This is but one reason.

[Page D]

Currently stuck on how to correctly set the Premiere Pro MPEG2-DVD export settings, specifically the GOP structure.

There will be two separate titles on my first DVD I am going to create, so when inputting the information into the DVD-HQ calculator dialog, I've added the running times of both titles together and it is just under 58 minutes, so, as I can only input whole minutes, it is set to 58 minutes. The Other Assets at the bottom of the calculator dialog, is presumably where I am to provide DVD-HQ with the file size of my menu screen and any audio file that will be played as the menu screen is displayed. There will be an audio file played during the DVD menu display, so, added together it comes to 25.3 MB, or 24.12796 MiB. Again, I can only input whole numbers, so I have input 25 MiB.

DVD-HQ gives GOP structure results in I, P and B values.

Premiere Pro's MPEG2-DVD export dialog allows you to input M and N GOP values only.

Please have a look at the two screen grabs. The first grab shows the results DVD-HQ has calculated for me, the second grab is my Prem Pro Export dialog box of my first title for my DVD, showing the GOP Structure settings.

How do to correctly determine the correct M and N values from the I, P and B values given to me in DVD-HQ?

[Stan Jones]

Don't change the M and P values from the defaults.

[Page D]

OK. Thanks.

Will give it a try. Each title will take several hours to transcode and save so will let you know how it goes in due course.

I assume you mean leave those M and N GOP values at their defult settings for any export, this one and all future ones?

[Stan Jones]

Yes, I don't recall when they change, but have always used the default that PR presents in the export settings.

Encore retranscodes menu assets (and muxes) in almost all cases. And I don't know how DVD-HQ uses them in its calculations. So I'd add a bit of padding for that. Use 100 and see if that affects the 8 CBR recommendation.

I think it is giving you a CBR recommendation because you set the action to "light or none." But a CBR of 8 should be fine.

[Page D]

Thanks.

Yes, I set it to Light or None as I feel the content is best described as such. There is the odd scene or two where four kids are flying on a Magic Carpet, with fast moving backgrounds in the periphery but, by and large, motion/activity is pretty tame.

[Page D]

An unexpected setback.

I saved both titles using DVD-HQ's calculations. Encore built the DVD folder fine, but the two problem areas in the footage has returned again in the finished build. Just to say, they are both points in the footaage of rapid movement, but there are many other points where similar levels of movement occurs but without any issue.