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H.264 gamma shift/washed out colours on export

Community Beginner ,
Sep 10, 2012

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I know this has been discussed before but I've been researching this topic for the past two hours and still can't find a solution.

I have .mov source files from a Canon 7D. Exporting them from PP CS5.5 (Mac OS X - Lion, 10.7.4) in h.264 or by 'matching sequence settings' results in a gamma shift/desaturated colours. Playing the resulting h.264 file in QuickTime Player, VLC, Elmedia all result in the same colour shift so this is not an issue with QT simply interpreting the gamma incorrectly.

Uploading to Vimeo and Youtube results in the same gamma shift. The monitor I'm using is not calibrated but when puling up a VLC window of the exported file next to the Program Monitor (on the same monitor) shows that there is a definite difference. Below is a screenshot.

Is there any way to produce an exported file for Vimeo use that reproduces the gamma as I see it in the Program Monitor?

Any help would be massively appreciated.

Thanks.Gamma shift.png

The fix may be within your Nvidia Control Panel settings.  I was having this issue when exporting from Premiere CS6 and uploading to Vimeo (the video once posted to Vimeo was washed out and/or hazy).

From this link: http://danbeahm.blogspot.com/2011/01/fix-windows-media-center-andor-vlc.html

The fix I found was to use the NVIDIA control panel to control your video playback instead of the video player’s settings. 

  1. Open your NVIDIA Control Panel (type NVIDIA in your start menu search field and select NVIDIA Control Panel).
  2. Go down to Video and select “Adjust video color settings.”
  3. Under #2 (How do you make color adjustments), select “With the NVIDIA settings.”
  4. Under the Advanced tab change the Dynamic Range with the drop down to “Full (0-255)” (not “Limited (16-235)”).
  5. For my display to look as it should, I had to uncheck “Dynamic contrast enhancement.”

My video now appears as it should (not washed out).

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H.264 gamma shift/washed out colours on export

Community Beginner ,
Sep 10, 2012

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I know this has been discussed before but I've been researching this topic for the past two hours and still can't find a solution.

I have .mov source files from a Canon 7D. Exporting them from PP CS5.5 (Mac OS X - Lion, 10.7.4) in h.264 or by 'matching sequence settings' results in a gamma shift/desaturated colours. Playing the resulting h.264 file in QuickTime Player, VLC, Elmedia all result in the same colour shift so this is not an issue with QT simply interpreting the gamma incorrectly.

Uploading to Vimeo and Youtube results in the same gamma shift. The monitor I'm using is not calibrated but when puling up a VLC window of the exported file next to the Program Monitor (on the same monitor) shows that there is a definite difference. Below is a screenshot.

Is there any way to produce an exported file for Vimeo use that reproduces the gamma as I see it in the Program Monitor?

Any help would be massively appreciated.

Thanks.Gamma shift.png

The fix may be within your Nvidia Control Panel settings.  I was having this issue when exporting from Premiere CS6 and uploading to Vimeo (the video once posted to Vimeo was washed out and/or hazy).

From this link: http://danbeahm.blogspot.com/2011/01/fix-windows-media-center-andor-vlc.html

The fix I found was to use the NVIDIA control panel to control your video playback instead of the video player’s settings. 

  1. Open your NVIDIA Control Panel (type NVIDIA in your start menu search field and select NVIDIA Control Panel).
  2. Go down to Video and select “Adjust video color settings.”
  3. Under #2 (How do you make color adjustments), select “With the NVIDIA settings.”
  4. Under the Advanced tab change the Dynamic Range with the drop down to “Full (0-255)” (not “Limited (16-235)”).
  5. For my display to look as it should, I had to uncheck “Dynamic contrast enhancement.”

My video now appears as it should (not washed out).

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LEGEND ,
Sep 10, 2012

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Before I went about adjusting things, I would try in another player, besides QT. It is known to have Gamma issues, and also color issues, though I know of those mainly from QT on the PC, but perhaps it's the same, or similar on the Mac?

Good luck,

Hunt

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 10, 2012

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I am aware of the issues that QT has and so I have tried it in other media players but they all look the same as each other. This is the same for Vimeo and Youtube also. The only place it looks different is in Premiere Pro.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 10, 2012

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OK, and thanks for that clarification. I did not want you joisting with windmills, when it was but a player issue.

Now, I have not encountered what you showed, and am also a PC-only guy, so not sure how much help I can be. However, there are some great folk here, and they will be by soon, with some useful ideas.

Good luck,

Hunt

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 10, 2012

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Did you use Quicktime's H.264 export option? Or just standard h.264 using the .mp4 container? If you used the Quicktime h.264 the option itself is flawed. Here are some links regarding the issue.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/cmg_blogs/story/brightness_issues_with_h264_quicktime_movies/

http://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2008/06/fix-quicktime-gamma-shift/

http://imnotbruce.blogspot.com/2011/07/fixing-quicktimes-gamma-export-problem.html

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1358418?start=0&tstart=0

http://byteful.com/blog/2010/07/how-to-fix-the-h264-gamma-brightness-bug-in-quicktime/

https://discussions.apple.com/message/8551140?messageID=8551140#8551140?messageID=8551140

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2292530?start=0&tstart=0

If you read around the net a lot of people have had this issue with h264. A couple of the articles I posted are supposed to "fix" the problem although I haven't ever tried any of them myself. I've never experinced a gamma shift when using the standard h.264 format option in Premiere, however if you have already used that option and you're still having issues then I have no clue what is going on. However when I import ProRes files into Premiere they don't appear washed out, but when I play them in Quicktime or VLC they do appear washed out. I've always just assumed Premiere was somehow correcting it, because when I export my video to mpeg-2 for playback on our server it looks like it looked in Premiere.

From what I have read though the reason the Quicktime format does this when using the h.264 codec looks and looks washed  out is because of a incorrect gamma tag. But Premiere isn't affected/fooled by this like most media players are. According from how they made it sound on provideo and the one other site I read it on anyways.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 11, 2012

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Thanks for the information ComputerNovice25.

I use the standard H.264 option when encoding from PP or Media Encoder. There are H.264 Blu-Ray and Quicktime options but I use H.264 which results in /mp4 files. Strangely, even when I use MPEG-2 or MPEG4 I'm still seeing the same issues.

I have a feeling that my problem is not limited to the H.264 codec but, like you said, something to do with how PP is interpreting the footage for playback. If this is the case, would the simple solution be to compensate for the gamma shift before encoding - so the footage looks too dark in PP - but acceptable when playing afterwards?

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 11, 2012

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Since you're having issues with mpeg-2 I know something wierd is for sure going now. Do you have a NVIDIA graphics card? Sometimes when people have NVIDIA GPU's and they have their color range set to limited 16-235 it causes stuff in their media players to look washed out. I'm not sure how to weak this on a mac though but you need to make sure your colors aren't set to 16-235 because that's what I'm starting to suspect, because I haven't ever had issues with mpeg-2 appearing "washed out". Unless their is some wierd bug going on here.

Also often times with mac's you need to check the following settings

Check this too... Scroll to the bottom of the post there is also one towards the middle that might help.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3718001?start=0&tstart=0

There are a couples settings mac's have that make things look washed out. Also could you upload a small test file that I could check on my system? The reason I don't think it would be good to make the color darker is because I'm thinking this is probably a GPU/OS on your specific machine possibly causing the issue. Video used to be washed out on my PC too but once I found the 16-235 and changed it then all my media players looked correct. Before they looked terrible though and Premiere looked okay.

Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a bug but I don't think it is, because I use mpeg-2 several times a day when I export for  broadcast and I haven't ever had it wash my video out in any media player at all unless my GPU settings weren't correct.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 11, 2012

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I do indeed have an NVIDIA card - NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M 256 MB - running on OS X 10.7.4. Your theory sounds quite close to what the problem actually could be.

Here's a test clip (mp4) - https://www.dropbox.com/s/12h1htyacchr8dk/Gamma%20test%206.mp4

Here's an MPEG2 for comparison as well - https://www.dropbox.com/s/tprd7k7blprpztl/Gamma%20test%207.mpg

Both look identical in both VLC and QT, ie. washed out compared to what I'm seeing in PP.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 11, 2012

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On my computer VLC matches Premiere perfectly, I'd recommend trying some of the tweaks I mentioned.

VLC AND PREMIERE.JPG

Then on my computer KMplayer actually appears darker than Premiere.

KMPLAYER.JPG

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Contributor ,
Jan 30, 2014

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The fix may be within your Nvidia Control Panel settings.  I was having this issue when exporting from Premiere CS6 and uploading to Vimeo (the video once posted to Vimeo was washed out and/or hazy).

From this link: http://danbeahm.blogspot.com/2011/01/fix-windows-media-center-andor-vlc.html

The fix I found was to use the NVIDIA control panel to control your video playback instead of the video player’s settings. 

  1. Open your NVIDIA Control Panel (type NVIDIA in your start menu search field and select NVIDIA Control Panel).
  2. Go down to Video and select “Adjust video color settings.”
  3. Under #2 (How do you make color adjustments), select “With the NVIDIA settings.”
  4. Under the Advanced tab change the Dynamic Range with the drop down to “Full (0-255)” (not “Limited (16-235)”).
  5. For my display to look as it should, I had to uncheck “Dynamic contrast enhancement.”

My video now appears as it should (not washed out).

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New Here ,
Mar 28, 2015

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YES, Digabyte!!!

I have been looking for a fix for a long time.

I'm a YouTuber and this problem was about to kill my channel, but this works!

Thank you so much!!

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New Here ,
Apr 14, 2015

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Wow.... After more than two years of frustration, this was the solution. Thank you digabyte.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 27, 2015

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Hi, but this will fix the colors on the video for anyone who watches the video on Youtube for example? Or this fix the problem only on your monitor settings, but not in the video file?

Thanks.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 27, 2015

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The answer to your questions illustrates the difficulty of working with all the various devices we have: there is NOTHING you can do to see that those who view your video work have appropriately set devices, whether desktops, tv's, laptops, tablets, or smartphones. The best you can do without going crazy is:

1) CALIBRATE your own system with a decent "puck" and software package.

2) TEST your output across a variety of devices you WILL be delivering content to, especially if it is for-pay to B-cast stations, satellite/cable companies, content distributors, anything like that. You may need slightly different post-process practices for different markets/user-groups.

3) Accept that you cannot control the infinite variables of an un-calibrated world. And get on with getting work out the door by following 1) & 2) above.

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 28, 2015

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Yeah, I know, but this particular H264 issue with the washed out colors have been driving me crazy.

I work mostly with 2D animations, and the fact that a red background (which is the client color) suddenly turns to pink on the final H264 is a huge pain in the ass. In videos these washed out colors aren´t that big deal, but in animations, this is a deal breaker.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 29, 2015

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The issue isn't that the color has changed in the file ... the issue is that the gamma or the outer-range of signal have been changed by a video player. Or both. Similar to the note above in this thread by another person, my video card (EVGA GTX-770/4Gb of course nVidia based) installed itself using it's own default setup for video programs: 16-235. Unless a video player (such as that within PrPro) insists on doing it's own thing, that will "rule" what happens. Shrink a 0-255 video to 16-235 and wow ... the darks just ain't so dark, the highlights mush, and the color tends to flatten a bit ... as of course does contrast (the last two are linked, of course, as far as "data" goes).

Now, let's throw on top the gamma question ... different video players treat gamma a bit differently. In other threads when someone provides an example of "bad" export by PrPro, another user has taken the "bad" clip, changed the gamma inverse to what the used video player typically does, and gee ... it suddenly and completely matched the "original" example set side by side with the "bad export" example. Again ... it wasn't that PrPro had done a bad job, but that the gamma used by the video player was a bit different.

You cannot control those variables in other machines run by other people ... the range issue or the gamma issue ... on all devices that will show your material. You can check if PrPro is exporting other than expected by bringing an exported clip back into PrPro ... with appropriate settings on the export, it SHOULD match the original. If on another machine in say Quicktime ... it probably will not. Given that many nVidia chipped cards set up with an assumed 16-235 range, and shrink all other material down into that range, there's a problem right there. Throw in the typical gamma mismatch between Quicktime and most anything else, you've got two variables that are WRONG. And that you as the "content provider" cannot control.

After changing the default nVidia control panel setting to assume 0-255, VLC seems to behave properly on my machine. Quicktime treats the same output into different codecs differently. Matched exports ... always play like the original in PrPro, and since I changed the nVidia setup default they play the same in VLC, but ... play differently depending on which codec is used in Quicktime.

Which is why around "here" a lot of folks stay the heck away from it. At least as far as any "critical" viewing goes. Or use it only to get an idea how Quicktime will mangle their efforts. If "your" market is all running Quicktime, then ... plan for it by testing and finding what settings you need to make in PrPro to make "in the wild" Quicktime players "show" your file somewhat maybe closer to what you want. And if they're on nVidia chips, well ... you might need to output to 16-235.

Or ... output correct material. And know you can't control what others do.

Whichever fits your market needs better.

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 29, 2015

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Thanks for the explanation man!!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 30, 2015

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I thought calibration for stills shooting such that what "we" saw on screen was what we got back from a lab as difficult.

Ha.

Video is SO much more complex ... but some of it is just out of one's control. Or you go nuts. Naw, set your gear up "righteous", know thy market, and get the stuff out. Get a glass of beer, wine or coffee, and enjoy life ...

Neil

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Explorer ,
Nov 12, 2015

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Yay, your Nvidia suggestion saved the day.  I'm running after effects on PC to color grade my PP footage (Dynamic Link style) and every time I rendered .mov files using Quicktime H.264 it was washed.  Is there way to render just the H.264 mp4 version from After Effects?  Seems only the Quicktime H.264 is available to choose.  I would like to render straight from AE instead of send to Media Encoder.

Thanks!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 12, 2015

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Is that H.264 "washed" when viewed in PrPro ... or when viewed in a freebie player like the Quicktime player? It may be that if you're not viewing it in PrPro after export, you might be looking at it through a gamma-challenged player. Which is often the case.

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 10, 2015

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I do have a similar problem, but it is only when exporting through AME. If I export directly from Premiere, it is fine, but not by the Media encoder. Do you have a clue what could be the cause?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 10, 2015

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Again, more info is needed. What's your footage ... camera, frame-rate (f-r) & frame-size (f-s), codec, and sequence settings in PrPro ... and then screen grabs of the export boxes for both PrPro & AME would be best.

Next, is this evaluated by looking at within PrPro, or through some other video player ... and if so, which?

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 11, 2015

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Thanks for reply. I guess it is not about footage, it is about hardware. Two other computers with totally equal setting in same project are OK but this one is not. (It is Prores HQ/422 - 1080p/2160p)

Exports checked in Premiere. Looks different. (H264 from AME is brighter then should be, export out of PrPro is OK)

Intel Xeon Hexa Core 3,2GHz, 24 GB RAM, nVidia Quadro 4000.

Thanks!

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New Here ,
Nov 17, 2015

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I also have the same issue. I have no problem playing it on VLC, but QT is just a pain.

I am running on a new imac 5k with AMD Radeon R9 M395X. I don't think I could change the dynamic range setting like in Nvidia. Any solution to mac users?

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Explorer ,
Nov 17, 2015

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Fixing the Nvidia settings they suggested in the forum fixed mine thank goddd

Sent from my iPhone

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Explorer ,
Dec 16, 2015

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Anyone find a solution for this problem in the 5k iMacs?

Thanks

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New Here ,
Dec 24, 2015

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Try changing the color profile to sRGB under monitor settings. It is defaulted on the 5k iMac to the P3 which is a much wider gamut and makes the exported file and the preview file in premiere look different. Most likely premiere is overriding it with their own color settings and thus causing it to look different on a media player when exported. If you bring up your quicktime file and compare it to the timeline image in premiere and select different color profiles, you will see wild variations between the two. My recommendation is to set it to sRGB. Then double check it on a TV or ideally a properly calibrated monitor. It also might still be slightly off due to gamma issues in each media player. That's another issue. Google quicktime gamma issues for more information on that. Color management is a nightmare. . .

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2016

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I've noticed this problem with exports on my new 5K iMac. My Retina Macbook Pro did not have this issue.

I would love to find a proper fix for it as the files also look washed-out on Youtube/Vimeo (so playing the files in VLC is not really a fix). For now, I have found that using the  'gamma correction' effect and setting to a value of 11 will counteract the shift. I put this on an adjustment layer just before exporting. Not ideal, but better than leaving the washed out exports as is.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 01, 2016

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It could be as little as a setting on your new iMac ... being different than one on your Retina. On the PC side, there's a setting in the nVidia control panel as shown here ...

nvid.PNG

That "How do you make ... " section is crucial. If "With video player" is checked, whatever the heck any video player prefers to do with the stuff it plays to "enhance the viewer's experience" will be done. Including things like say, jumping the gamma (contrast) for more "pop", and interesting variants of what "they" think their users use for incoming material & cameras ... so it could be choosing to set 'full range' levels to 16-235, 16-255, or 0-255. And each player WILL do it differently!

Changing the settings on my own beast to "With NVIDIA settings" and Dynamic (signal levels) set for Full (0-255) means I get fewer of the surprises of the delightful creators of the general-use video players.

Broadcast level output has been 16-255 recently, if I've got it right, and many "pro" things use that. I think in the tape days it was 16-235 to preserve adequate extra headroom. And is going to 0-255 on pro level outputs, and as HDR comes in, what's been referred to as the IRE scale has become Nits, as a measure of signal luminance, with 0-255 Nits replacing the 0-255 IRE scale. But HDR can go anywhere from 400 Nits to 1,000 Nits. Perhaps more. The Lumetri scopes in both PrPro & SpeedGrade can handle well over 1,000 Nits when set to HDR.

And it all gets back to ... if your stuff is going to be viewed on the web by who knows who, on no one knows what "device" from a smartphone to a huge workstation, with/without monitor calibration, and of course ... AFTER YouTube/Vimeo/Whoever Service has jacked around with your upload, you can't control squat.

The only way to keep your sanity and keep working is make sure your own system is fully calibrated with a puck system & software at least ...  a lovely full broadcast reference monitor and BM or AJA connector parts is even better though several more thousands of buck of course ... and that the material stays within proper bounds on your scopes and when viewed over say a standard TV from maybe a DVD or something, and viewed over other computer monitors, it looks ok. You'll NEVER be able to make it look perfect on any other uncalibrated device ... period. But as long as your material looks the same as other properly prepared material (meaning BROADCAST quality things viewed on that device) ... it's the best you can do.

Neil

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Participant ,
Apr 16, 2016

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I have an nvidia card, I experience the issues mentioned here.  I understand this is a display problem, but the issue is how to make sure that what I output look at least most users settings.  I'm pretty sure that there's a tiny percentage of people that are making those adjustment settings you mentioned.  In fact those are probably the default settings that no one care about, the issue remain the same.  I look at VLC and Youtube, and the colors are crushed and washed out, and if I view it in Windows player it look pretty much like in Premiere editor. But my target is pretty much youtube.

I also made some tests with other codecs, and some of them appear just like the editor in the before mentioned players that showed the issue, unfortunately I can't use them because either Youtube doesn't support them or they are just too massive.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 16, 2016

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It's back to the issue ... you cannot out-guess you're clients, and you have to accept that. Remember, they will see this not in comparison to YOUR "beautiful" version, but only in comparison to all the other stuff they view in their setup.

ALL b-cast quality stuff they see is delivered at the standard b-cast levels to YouTube, and viewed by users with the same issues as you're complaining about. If you deliver b-cast or near b-cast standards material, it will appear to them as the same or very similar to the OTHER good-quality stuff they get.

If you deliver something that is "other" than what they get as the "good" stuff, that's what they'll notice ... if they notice anything. And at that point, yours is "different" than the studio-quality stuff they view.

All broadcasters, even the good old networks, have this issue ... NO ONE controls how all those stupid tv's are setup, nor how the screens of the computers/devices are setup. They ALL deliver to their standards and have to leave folks to their own setups.

So ... do you think you're smarter than the networks, cable companies, and such, at out-guessing all possible computer/device screens?

If so ... there's room in various nice facilities, food provided ... locked key-passed doors ... endless days to think by yourself ... plot your takeover of the world ... watch the clouds go by ...

Neil

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Participant ,
Apr 16, 2016

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But it not about client side... I get also the washed out effect on my own players.  This is not about the others player settings. I can check the erroneous colors either on my device or at work, and they look like the same washed out issue. Not the differences of the players of what you describe.  Besides, settings of nVidia doesn't do nothing, at least to me.

One thing however you said that could make sense is the player might be playing the 16-235 range instead of 0-255, but I have no idea how to arrange the final output to match either of these.  I know in Sony Vegas there's a way to correct this by either selecting Studio RGB output filter to fix that, but I never found an equivalent in PP.

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Participant ,
Apr 16, 2016

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Here's an other example to illustrate my point.

Here's a screenshot of an output made in h264. High profile, 5.2, 20mbps. The left picture is what I have in PP, the middle pic is what I see in VLC and right, is Youtube.  You can clearly see a colorshift difference, the reds is more magenta and the blacks are darkenned a bit. Two different players, yet they show exactly the same issue.

sOmAGuJ.jpg

Here's now the same segment, uploaded in Lagarith codec.

e8uk5Lq.jpg

The reds are now exactly where I want, and I did not change anything in my computer at all. And as far as I know, Youtube convert to H.264 once uploaded. So there's definitely something with wrong with the h264 codec in PP imo.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 16, 2016

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As noted, some of the players show 0-255, some 16-255, some 16-235. Unless you can find settings in the players to change this, which some do allow, they will appear that way on your computer just as for others on theirs. So yes, you can see what they will see. They, however, will NEVER see what you see in PrPro to compare it to.

You can NOT out-guess how to put out something that will appear the same on everyone else's computer compared to on a different computer/player combo ... simply not possible. Everyone will have a slightly different 'view' of your material, especially compared to what you see within a properly managed pro-level program. So you are trying to do the impossible ... and no one else putting out media in general can do this either. In order to do what you're trying to do, you'd have to have multiple outputs of everything you post, listed by output specs, AND rely on the users to know whether they 'need' the 0-255, 16-235, or 16-255 version.

As I said in my last post, no one else will ever be comparing what they see with what you worked in Premiere Pro. They will ONLY see it in comparison with the other media they see on that player with the same settings as their player always uses. If it looks the same as good-quality material they see on THAT screen with THAT player, it will look 'right' to them. As in, again, it looks like their other good-quality stuff they watch.

For general information, PrPro seems to run pretty much 0-255 with most codecs on export, and also seems to handle some camera's outputs that are say 16-235/255 fairly well on import, showing this as full-range material.

So what you are left with ... is the same as any and EVERY other content-provider on the planet: you can't control the screens your content is seen on! You can't outguess how to appear exactly as it does on your machine in a pro-managed program. Period.

All you can do is do your best to make sure that your own system is set up as calibrated as possible. No one else can do it better or differently, as again ... no provider has control over any but their own screens.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 16, 2016

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There's a very subtle difference in the way it appears, and it is closer in the Lagarith one ... so fine, use that. This isn't to say there's something "wrong" with H.264 within PrPro, as it could as easily be the way that the other players interact with H.264 in general ...

And even on your upper set, where there is a visible difference ... if that is all the difference that this appears on from different computers, you would be the luckiest content provider on the planet. Seriously.

If I showed you one of those by itself, you walked out of the room a moment and back in, you would never be able to be certain which one I had on the screen, whether I'd changed it or not. You might have a guess, and half the time, you'd outguess yourself.

Sitting staring at them compared to each other, it's obvious to you. But color, contrast, and hue are all way too relative to human brains. Use the Lagarith if you feel better, and just get to work. And that's coming from a picky sot myself ...

Neil

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Participant ,
Apr 16, 2016

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I don't agree with you. At all.  The chroma and lighting in general  is in the ballpark of where I want with Lagarith and totally off with H.264, and this is not only this particular shot, but almost on every shots, making the whole video look dull and less colorful as intended.

Again, this is not about what the other might perceive. I think everyone here is smart enough to get that. The point is to preserve the output lightning and chroma the nearest as possible to the proofing media aimed for, and this is crucial in color grading to prevent that the skin look purple instead of pink and such, otherwise I'll be wasting time with vectorscopes.   I think my examples above are dead clear about that, you might find it slight, but since many complained about it here and elsewhere, I think it worth to take a look to the issue more seriously.

I would use Lagarith  it if I could, but the size are gigantic.  If it a flawed issue of the H.264 codec, then yes, learning to accept it is a must, but then, how to make sure you have the right proofing colors output?  PP doesn't have any color management system as far as I know so a calibrating puck is like useless at this point.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 16, 2016

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What seems clear to me, but not so clear to you at this point (it seems) ... is that you're very worried about a very tight level of proofing control on say PrPro yet feeding your delivery into a system that will throw it all over heck and gone.

What is absolutely guaranteed ... after you upload that to YouTube, not one person on the planet will ever see every hue precisely as you have them in any NLE you might choose to use. How do I know that precisely? I have two good monitors here, both puck-calibrated, and they will NEVER show the same thing identically. Close, but not identical. Within PrPro, the same video player, whatever.

I'm going to NAB, headed to the airport in a couple hours. I'll be spending a lot of time with colorists that use upwards of $30k gear at their editing suite, including all the out-board BlackMagic and AJA and Kona cards & boxes feeding out-board high-end dedicated scopes and their beautiful Flanders Scientific broad-cast monitors. If I mention this discussion, they'll just shake their heads. Yea, for the work they do, pulling secondaries to make sure that some company's logo and other 'trade-marked' colors are precise in the original is absolutely necessary ... and they do it righteously.

But even among their gear, no two monitors will show precisely exactly what another one shows. Close ... it's something they routinely have to explain to clients, as so often they've got two-three computer monitors for working, the scopes thing, and a large monitor for clients to watch "over their shoulder" while working. Colorists talk routinely about wishing they had a way to make sure the client never EVER saw their working monitors and the client-monitor/screen together while working, as there are so often discussions about it ... and some clients are frightened that this screen is "right" but that one is "wrong".

So they deliver those trade-marked colors as tightly according to precise number values as possible. And the commercial is broadcast ... but no two stations doing the broadcast will put out totally identical signals, there will be averaged variations ... and no two TV's that ever show that to the consumer will agree precisely on those oh-so-precise colors. Because the TV's are all over the flipping creation both for what they are capable of, and how they're set ... or not. BUT ... within that system, there are actual standards. And still it's more variable than seems reasonable.

PrPro is used every day by thousands of broadcast professionals to put out highly technically prepped b-cast work, that is scanned for "standards" on submission to the studio and passes without issue. That's broadcast standards, something that can be set and technically evaluated. So ... PrPro is definitely a pro-level tool. Routinely used for pro-level b-cast deliverables. Accurately, reliably.

There is NO such thing for YouTube submissions. Or for the internet in general. Period. It's not the same "field".

People deliver H.264 files meeting b-cast standards from PrPro every day. And Lagarith, ProRes, and many other codecs as laid out by whoever they're delivering their content to. So claiming there's something "wrong" with PrPro's output isn't perhaps ... totally accurate. Might there be differences between PrPro's output that one can find with different codecs, especially viewed "in the wild" on different video players? Of course ... every player does slightly different things with the codecs it sees by any test I've ever made or seen. Partly because some codecs include specific things in them to "set" gamma and levels, and others don't. And partly because of the way the code for that player works.

So I'm not disparaging your work in trying to puzzle this out, or understand it ... but the reason there haven't been other long-term users jumping in to either assist or suggest something else, is we've been through this. You're trying to do the most righteous output/delivery you can, and I understand that ... it's what I do also.

But you're delivering into a swamp-land of no standards whatever ... seriously, which is what both YouTube and the Web and general-use video players are. And trying to relate what something is like after being dumped into the swamp with what it was like in a pristine state.

You'd have better success in say creating b-cast standard stuff to a tv station, then watching that output on a b-cast standard fully calibrated expensive TV. But even then, you still would see variants at LEAST as great as what you show above. In a totally standards-controlled situation beginning to end.

Which isn't at all what we do when we take something from PrPro and put it into a computer and play it on a general video player. Even on our own computer.

Neil

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Participant ,
Apr 17, 2016

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Right...

Anyway, after searching for the issue in other discussions, the suggestion was  to use an external h.264 compressor.   Now it look good on both YUV and RGB range and Youtube show the right colors for me and for the others.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 18, 2016

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Glad you're pleased. Which external compressor did you use, and how about listing the steps ... for anyone else finding this thread ...

Neil

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Aug 19, 2016

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Thank you Neil for your well phrased and clear posts on this controversial subject matter . I am sorry that the user  Jonzy you tried to help with such patience and much time an effort, did not choose to return the courtesy and write the exact steps that supposedly solved his problem. I am assuming her refereed to "Handbrake" which is an open source trans coder that is very good and many users recommend it: https://handbrake.fr/  I used it many times myself (not to "solve" color shifts) but today I am comfortable with AME.

Thank you for making the effort and help making this community a source of support, knowledge and positivity to all levels of skill, and I am looking forward to chance upon more of your interesting posts in the future.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 21, 2016

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Hey, thanks for the comment!

I understand the other guy's frustrations, so ... even though he didn't exactly want to accept the info, I've been there and been just as frustrated and upset as he was. It wasn't until I found out about the place in the Nvidia setup panel that I was able to even get Premiere Pro, SpeedGrade, and AfterEffects to look the same with the same clip, let alone "matching" any other video player on my machine. But as soon as I made that system-level switch setting correct, it all worked as I'd expected it would to begin with.

And going out to "the swamp" of the 'net, whether YouTube, Vimeo, whatever ... even just different browsers ... my.

There are so many things about these wonderful but incredibly complex programs that are like that .... not at ALL what a "noob" expects them to be, but past that ... not even what an experienced person with one program expects when they switch. PrPro users have just as much trouble trying to sort out FCP as FCP users have coming into PrPro.

Colorists who have spent most of their time in Resolve, with a little editing time in say Avid, can be totally befuddled and bewildered by PrPro ... and how to set up their projects on multiple discs to make PrPro run well. So people argue that "my computer does perfectly well with this other complex program, so clearly there's something wrong with PrPro". No ... they just need to set up their projects and maybe change their computer setup a bit to work better with PrPro. Which to them doesn't make sense.

I do just a bit, mostly testing and learning, with Resolve. To really use that program there are several hardware changes I'd need to make. None of which will make PrPro run better, and if I'd come from Resolve, with a machine that ran that program well,  and then setup a PrPro project without understanding PrPro ... I'd have been screaming about something being stupid or wrong with PrPro. Naturally.

And as to using an external H.264 compressor ... that's an issue with a whole other set of complex arguments also! May solve one issue and lead to three others you may not catch at first ... such as suddenly 'losing' a b-cast "safe" state for the video signals, all sorts of things. Might come flying right back at you unless you know what you're doing as you've tested it prior to actual delivery. (And yes, I have heard of people doing exactly what jonzo said ... and getting their major hard-deadline project rejected for b-cast 'safe' issues.)

So yea, if that external compressor actually solved the issue without leading to others ... it would have been VERY useful info for him to have posted here. Ah well.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. Building knowledge and experience around here is what "we" tend to come back and back for.

Neil

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Aug 21, 2016

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Thank you Neil. Yes these arguments are all over the net for many years. once and a while comes a guy and simplifies everything for everyone. color management is a tough topic to wrap your head around. I honestly say I could not, so I just let it go. I have recently been there when My wide gamut screen began to cause me trouble. after trying i1display calibrator, then getting into the mess of calibration and visiting ultra geeky forums, then trying to buy a high-end monitor and then regretting in the last minute, I have decided to set everything as sRGB in my Monitor and forget I ever new about WG or color shifts. and my next monitor is going to be Srgb too. if it looks good when I import it back - it's good. if I upload to youtube, download it again and it looks good in my NLE or Ae - it's o.k and that's all I need to know to keep my sanity

you are welcome to visit my channel and maybe learn a few things about after effects. AeBlues on Vimeo

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 21, 2016

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Oh heavens ... that wide-gamut thing ... yea, that gets ... complicated.

Ok ... I'm a bit on the Aspergers/Autism spectrum ... and therefore ... if puzzled by something I dive into puzzling it out at a detail level most other find absurd. Which means that well, as I mentally store data-bits in my head like crazy, using all of it trouble-shoot is sort of a natural thing to do, and helpful here ... all to the good, right?

If I were younger, where I'd "go" professionally ... would be running flat out to be simply a colorist. All those years of having our own b/w and full color darkrooms in our studio, so we could do our own printing and all the dodging/burning and hand-applied to the print artwork after printing ... well, I love doing the "pretty" part.

And so, I tend to like to "hang" with colorists at NAB, and have become acquainted with several who not only are major "players" in the colorist multiverse, but teach a LOT. And ... study their every tutorial, talk with them ad infinitum on anything colorist ... and on nearly every subject can quickly get up to speed to be able to at least ask decent questions, if not ... be a full participant.

So ... Patrick Inhofer goes off into a multi-part tutorial (12-15 minutes per each!) ... on calibrating appropriately for running Resolve or any other grading/NLE app ... on the three "regular" monitors, one of which is devoted to external scopes ... and the proper pro (Flanders Scientific) playback monitor/TV that any Serious Pro has. And which is the right ​test​ software and gear to have to run the complicated test steps to calibrate your calibrating software and gear to DO the calibration of your various screens.

Geeky me watches these ... and stares at the screen for while afterwards, working to comprehend what the heck he was saying. And watches again.

Of course, the alternative as he puts it ... is to accept "good enough" which for many people probably will work just fine ... or just hire someone every six months to a year to come in for a day & do a pro-level calibration.

This is with currently standard-gamma gear. It gets a bit ... dicier, as he notes ... if you need wide-gamut calibration, as you ALSO need to be able to "drop that back into" standard-gamut setup for most work at this time.

Right. Well, I ain't a space-alee-un at the moment.

I can get by for my clientele with a good monitor calibrated to Rec.709 with the i1 and tested on decent players/TV's for output check.

And I'll wait a bit on wide-gamut, even though ... heck, it looks cooler than the South Pole ... !

Neil

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Aug 21, 2016

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thank you Nick. I wrote in that other posts that I sent you, when 2 or 3 professional community experts tried their best to explain it to me, that when I figure it all out - I would make a tutorial about it. I just could not simplify it enough for an idiot like me. I consider myself a good teacher because I take pride in my ability to make complicated aspect of the software clear to even the most basic level of users - because that's how I finally got it. but this one got the best of me so I just let it go and focus on other things.

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New Here ,
May 26, 2017

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Any chance you can share the external compressor you are using?  I am having red color shifts in uploads to Vimeo and Youtube that I can't seem to clear up.  The video starts in camera as sRGB, then its imported and edited in premiere pro and exported to H.264.  Youtube and Vimeo export codec settings don't make a difference in the upload.  I have changed Nvidia display settings for my PC so now exports to viewers like VLC at least match up enough with PP.  But uploads to Youtube and Vimeo are slightly washed out with a red shift.

Thanks.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 26, 2017

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Have you tried using the QuickTime format, but changing the codec to DNxHD/R?

For most users, that seems to 'fix' any issues uploading to YT or Vimeo.

Neil

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New Here ,
May 26, 2017

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Wow, yes! As it happens I followed the suggestion above from alinap8615352 and just before your response was posted the upload to Vimeo had just finished. No color shift!  Hooray.

Now I have to figure out how to get back to 1080p. (I formated to QT, changed to video codec to DNxHD/R and made no other changes so the output .mov was 720p.)

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New Here ,
May 26, 2017

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Well I changed output resolution to 1080p DNxHD HQ-8bit and the resulting file jumped from 2GB to 11GB w max render quality, etc.  I tried handbrake to reduce file size but the H.264 codec at that point just added back the colorshift in youtube.  Any ideas on how I can reduce the file size but keep the 1080p?  The 11GB upload to YouTube would take forever.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 26, 2017

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There are several qualities of DNxHD/R ... you can get one that is probably much "lighter" and more compressed than the one you tried.

Neil

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New Here ,
May 27, 2017

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Thanks.  I used a DNxHD codec that slimmed down the file and once I uploaded to YouTube and the resolution snapped into place...I saw that the same red color shift had not gone away after all.

But, I downloaded the Lagarith codec and used that to create a avi file.  I then loaded that avi into YouTube and, voila, red color shift all gone and at HD resolution.

So Lagarith codec solved all my issues.

Thanks again for educating this newbie!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 27, 2017

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Just happy to help you get going ...

Neil

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New Here ,
Mar 04, 2016

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I have a problem that seems very similar that all that have been described. I am on Windows 10 with Premiere with an AMD Radeon graphic card.

When exporting from Premiere CS5.5, the colors are washed out like described but besides, it is also a little bit pixelated. This makes the quality of the final video really bad... I'm trying to export in 1920x1080 in format H.264, with a 50 frames frequency, a 5.1 level and VBR 1 pass.


I tried every possibility of settings in Premiere with H.264, nothing changed... I tried the solution proposed by digabyte (but with my AMD card, it wasn't exactly the same) and it didn't changed a bit. I'm desperate, can anyone figure out what I'm facing and maybe help me ? 🙂 Would be so great !

Thank you so much !

Guillaume

Those are 3 screenschots of the original footage played on VLC:

Original footage.jpg

And those are 3 screenschots of the project exported from Premiere, alos played on VLC (you can see the pixels on the jacket in the second image and the washed out colors of the trees and the gun):

Quality loss.jpg

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New Here ,
May 05, 2016

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I have a similar problem, in Premiere CC, Over exposed areas appear white however, when exported as H.264 or ProRes, the over exposed areas turn Magenta?

Any ideas what may be causing this?Pink.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 05, 2016

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Yes, I do think I know what's happening ... but this is a very different issue than the original post concerned.

Go to your Lumetri Color workspace, and get the Lumetri scopes out. Particularly the RGB Parade, Wave, and YUV Vectorscope. I believe you'll find the 'magenta' areas have values well above the 100 nits top line of the scopes. PrPro does have some occasional blurps with some types of media with values up there ... and at times, when exporting that media to certain outputs.

I'm curious ... is this RAW or CinemaDNG media, perchance? Or shot in some log form? The first two can really get this, the last sometimes. If RAW or CinemaDNG there are master clip controls for some settings that might need adjusting, though I've not a lot of experience there and that some months ago. What you might try also is use the luma sliders of the Lumetri "Creative" tab ... the vertical sliders to the left of the three color wheels are Luma sliders ... particularly the right-side Highs control ... and back the tops of your trace in the scopes to within the 100 top line. (Often the "Basic" tab's exposure/contrast sliders are NOT allowed to move data outside the 1-99 range>)

Also ... if this is from one of the very wide DR-range cameras now available, you might need instead to set the sequence to High DR as shown here:

Neil

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