LUT data levels full range, video or auto

Report · Mar 07, 2019

I am working with slog files and I have a custom made LUT by a colorist.

How can I adjust the way ppro is handling this LUT.

It should be 'full range' instead of 'video'. But I cannot find the settings for this.

It looks like ppro is showing it in 'video'....

In Resolve it looks perfect for instance where I can adjust it in:

Project Settings/Master Settings/Data Levels/Video or Full

Thanks!

Report · Mar 07, 2019

I'd be interested in seeing answer to this too, so I'm posting reply so I get the link to see responses.

I just did S Log stuff (4k) in resolve ( no custom LUT provided) and even in resolve I had some problem assigning color space to source, timeline and output ( basically about 4 different S Log variations available to choose from) .. I made the timeline S Log and source I left at Rec 709 2.4.

Then for each clip made serial node and did color on that using scopes to get legal for full range etc.

It was weird.

I don't think Adobe stuff is even remotely color aware to that point, where you can assign specific camera stuff ( ARRI, RED, ETC.) the same way, and it's not node based. So I would try a clip in timeline leaving stuff at default (probably sRGB) and apply LUT to that one clip and see what your scopes show you, etc. ???? Someone else probably has way better answer and I look forward to seeing it.

Thanks for posting this mssg, as I am also curious.

Report · Mar 07, 2019

Pr handles media in the "standards" for each format/codec. Except for some few image sequences like DPX and a couple of the high-bit 4444 format/codecs, everything else by standard is video levels not full/data levels. Ergo, they don't have controls outside standards.

Pr takes media as-is by standard, converts to 32 bit float, and starts working.

Resolve, as mainly a grading app with media coming from everything and with a colorist's need to be able to "break" stuff, does have color options per clip that Pr doesn't ... yet. Many of us keep pushing for that to be added to Pr.

Within Lumetri, to me, the way all LUTs clip, the better way to apply them is in the Creative tab's slot, where you can:

1) Trim the media's tonality before the LUT to avoid clipping as Van Hurkman and nearly everyone else teaches and

2) Adjust the "strength" of the LUT with the controls for that in the Creative tab.

The Basic tab's Black control is wonky, so I'll often drop an RGB Curves in front of (above) Lumetri in the ECP and adjust black point there.

Hope that helps.

And ... what media are you pushing into full/data levels and ... why? Not that it's wrong, I'm just as always curious.

Neil

Report · Mar 07, 2019

Looks to me like you can't use the LUT. If you have to adjust your clip before applying the LUT and then adjust the "strength" of the LUT, it sorta defeats the purpose of having the LUT as a starting point.

So, offhand, I would say, " NO, you cannot adjust your video and full range option ( as you can in Resolve) using PPro.

Why you would want to do that ( using S log or Raw ), considering the desire to close blacks and blow out whites and adjust pivot accordingly, is none of my business. To ME it's a matter of having more control over subtle things. For all I know you may have an acid bath bypass in your LUT. It's none of my business.

Good luck !

Report · Mar 07, 2019

As explained by Van Hurkman and so many others ... ALL LUTs will clip data that is on the edges, they are "dumb" controls.

LUTs for technical corrections or even to create a Look, doesn't matter. They are created under a specific set of data ranges. And will work properly only fed that set of data ranges.

To apply them to other clips, you need to get the clip into the data range the LUT is designed to work. Which requires getting the LUT applied to the clip, then trimming the media prior to the LUT while viewing scopes and image through the LUT.

In Resolve any LUT is applied as the last processing step of the node it is applied to. Automagically when you apply a LUT to a node then do corrections in that node, you are trimming before the LUT, viewing through it and post LUT.

Pr applies the LUT as the first step of the process in each Basic and Creative tabs slot. So to do the same process as Resolve you need to either apply the LUT in the Creative tab and trim in Basic, or if you apply in Basic tab, either use an RGB Curves effect prior to Lumetri or another Lumetri instance prior to the Lumetri with the LUT.

It's easy to work with multiple Lumetri layers, rename them, all sorts of things.

Neil

Report · Mar 07, 2019

Thank you very much Neil for your answer.

They are shooting portraits on three Sony f5 (4k) in a white limbo-environment. Afterwards they color grade it at the post house and they supply the LUT so the director can see the footage as intended in the offline. But it looks different in my set when using this LUT (through Lumetri/basic correction) in ppro. It doesn't look different when imported in Resolve and then applied as a LUT in full range on the clips. So what I did now is make proxy's (pro res lt HD) from resolve with the LUT, both for speeding up editing in ppro as well as to be sure the LUT is applied in full range as the post house suggested. But still, I have the feeling it looks different in ppro...

If I would use the LUT in ppro using the Creative tabs slot, I will have to manually adjust the strength. But this should not be necessary because the colorist already made it close to what it should be.

Thanks again, and I will look into Van Hurman.

Report · Mar 07, 2019

Thanks for the kind comments, btw.

With the variety of settings one can use in Resolve, at times they can seem very different in how they 'view' things. Which is rather unsettling to say the least. Terrifying, really.

Small independent operator as I am, I can easily pick my settings and just leave them. So ... the system is set to run the profile generated by the i1Pro system I'm using currently. I use Resolve set Auto for media (so it simply reads the file and applies appropriate space), to RCM for Color Management and Rec.709/gamma 2.4 for all three, Input/Timeline/Output ... and I can go forth & back between them without issue.

For someone working specifically in Resolve, you can build a workflow around altered settings. And make it work perfectly if you follow through always on the other things that will need to accompany that. But it can become a train-wreck real quick though in a Pr/Resolve workflow if things go forth and back a time or two.

I've been through a ton of stuff on Pr/Resolve round-trip/conform tactics, practices, and techniques. One of the first things normally listed is to get Resolve set either in Davinci YRGB or Davinci RCM, but make sure either way the "levels" is set to Auto and Input/Timeline/Output are all Rec.709/gamma 2.4.

Because stepping outside that becomes a wilderness.

For your process, if you've got Resolve folks who have Their Process and it ain't gonna change bucko ... Pr's non-ability for user settings in video/full among other things becomes a road-block. They can change, you can't ... but if they won't ... what are you supposed to do?

Yeah ... not fun.

And I've still no idea (technically) why they wanted a LUT in full for camera-shooting purposes. The media has enough 'depth' to it for the 16/235/ vs 0-255 "range" issue to be a total non-issue.

Neil

Report · Mar 07, 2019

Neil, stand on your own and don't keep referring to Van Hurkman so often. You are probably more able to tell good stories, shoot them, edit them, and color them, than he is, if you had the money ( backing ).

It gets tiresome and you deserve more credit for your own progress.

Just a suggestion.

Report · Mar 07, 2019

maybe export a small section of timeline from resolve of same stuff in PPro and export same section from there.. open both in something you trust as being color aware and correct... look at both side by side ( using calibrated primary monitor and SDI out to video monitor) and see what you got.

guessing is not very accurate.

???

Good luck, I'm outta here !

It's the old 'color' can of worms again.

Report · Mar 07, 2019

Probably some acid bath stuff or whatever... Or just plain " insecurity" , shooting wide gamut and wanting to narrow it down to a look, without using pre roll color and tonal range kodak stuff with specific color temp lighting for that.

whatever, the options are now amazingly ( potentially) really good from lots of cameras.

The audience is less critical ( pro audience) than it used to be now. Almost anything that is projected or broadcast, within legal range ( your definition of "standards" , smpte) is fine. The audience doesn't know as much as they used to.

They do about how they 'feel' but they don't re: tonal ranges and color saturation and so on.

That's just my old man opinion.

I'm shooting stuff that I could never have imagined 20 years ago with a film camera, using raw, and editing some S log friend's stuff recently.

Thank god young people can do cool stuff if they have the money to buy decent cameras and use the tools for post now available at home.

I hope they don't tell stories that upset me. You never know, with kids, what the heck they will end up doing.

Report · Mar 07, 2019

BTW, your hero is wearing a lot of hats.. might be worth looking into.