Sony A7s. Problems conforming 59.94 to 23.976

[michaelduffy1884]

Hello

I'm trying to Modify / Interpret the footage so it plays back in slow motion.  I've been doing this for years without a problem however this is the first time I'm cutting with Sony A7s footage. As usual I go into the browser control click the clip > modify > Interpret footage and change my frame rate.

This works fine on some clips and the other clips it looks like I just slowed down a normal old 24 FPS clip.... That ugly choppy playback where all the in between frames are missing.

So far the only distinguishable difference I can locate is the file format.  Below is a sample from two clips, the info is from the clip properties in Premiere.

Clips that won't conform properly

PRIVATE/M4ROOT/CLIP/C0023.MP4

Type: MPEG Movie

File Size: 1.6 GB

Image Size: 1920 x 1080

Frame Rate: 59.94

Clips that conform fine

private/AVCHD/BDMV/STREAM/00003.MTS

Type: MPEG Movie

File Size: 136.9 MB

Image Size: 1920 x 1080

Frame Rate: 59.94

It obviously doesn't like that .MP4 or M4ROOT

Does anyone have a work around or any technical explanation of what is distinguishing this .MP4 from others ?

Also I tried to conform in cinema tools but that doesn't recognize .MP4 clips and it won't open them.

Any help, advice or links would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[DMH79]

Your post scared the crap out of me. Ive shot about 10 weddings using the A7s and all of it is shot at 60p in XAVCs and then edited on a 24p timeline.  Most of it is slowed down. I hadn't edited any of my footage from the last 10 weddings so I got scared that all those weddings would be choppy as you mentioned when it's slowed down. But, I just checked with a wedding I shot today (all at 1080p60 XAVCs (in that M4ROOT folder) on a 24p timeline) and it wasn't choppy on this end. Not sure what's happening on your end to make it not smooth slow-mo. Did you double check your sequence settings? I don't know. I have no idea what to tell you except that it "should" work okay. I do know that if I took a 60p clip and slowed it down 40% on that 24p timeline then I get the same smooth slow-mo result as doing it the normal "interpret footage" way. What happens if you do it that way? If that same clip was nested first and then slowed down 40%, it appears choppy. Sorry if I'm of no help. Just reporting what I see on my end.

[Cineflair]

I'm running into the same issue. Footage shot in XAVCs at 60p gets choppy when slowed down to 50% on a 30p timeline. I've shot slo-mo footage on my A7s before and it worked fine. Not sure why this time is different

[Cineflair]

I just did some tests and shot a few clips at 60p with different exposure settings. There's a possibility that this is caused by a slow shutter speed setting when I originally shot the clip. I had the camera running on P mode, which lets you set your ISO and automatically adjusts the aperture and shutter speed for exposure. The one clip I shot with 1/120 shutter speed runs smooth when slowed down. But the one with shutter speeds under 1/30 gets choppy as soon as I slow it down below 80%. That must be it, at least for me. Tough lesson learned.

[jamiesimko222]

THIS IS TOTALLY IT! Thank you. Have been ripping my hair out for days on this.

[Thin Reel Account 2]

I'm sure you have found a solution but this may help the others out there. I never really shot 60p on my 550d but with my new A7s I love it. However, one shoot I forgot to double my shutter speed when in 60p mode. This is essential I have run some tests and the footage shot at a 100 shutter speed is the smoothest at 50 it is choppy.

Hope this help guys

[merjalene]

Hello! I'm curious if you ever figured out a solution to this issue. I just shot some stuff on the A7S but it went directly to the shogun so it's in ProRes422 HQ. When trying to interpret it as 29.97 in Premiere, it looks SUPER choppy. I even tried using Cinema Tools to conform it ... no such luck.

I've done this so many times on the Canon 5D ... I'm not sure why the A7S would be so different.

Would appreciate any input!!

[DMH79]

merjalene wrote:

Hello! I'm curious if you ever figured out a solution to this issue. I just shot some stuff on the A7S but it went directly to the shogun so it's in ProRes422 HQ. When trying to interpret it as 29.97 in Premiere, it looks SUPER choppy. I even tried using Cinema Tools to conform it ... no such luck.

I've done this so many times on the Canon 5D ... I'm not sure why the A7S would be so different.

Would appreciate any input!!

You shot at and recorded at 60p right? What was your shutter set at? Also did your Shogun record at 1080p60 or was your HDMI output settings set to output at 24p? Off the bat, it sounds like your shutter was under 1/60 and that's when things start getting choppy for 60p footage at 1/50 shutter and under...but it could also be related to other things. Also, double check your sequence settings to make sure your sequence is at 29.97

[merjalene]

Hi! Thanks for the quick response. Yes I'm pretty positive our output is 60p because when you look at the properties of the clip in Premiere, it says the frame rate is 59.94.

I'm thinking it HAS to be the shutter which is a huge bummer. When I scrub through the footage it actually looks like there are repeat frames 😕

[DMH79]

and you're certain your sequence is set to 29.97?

If you put the un-interpreted clip on a 59.94 timeline it looks smooth right? Occasionally we'll forget to switch the shutter after shooting 24p stuff and it'll be at 1/50 for 60p footage and while it looks okay at full speed, when you slow it down it gets choppy. That's why we normally do either 1/60 or 1/125 depending on what we're shooting. Sorry you're hitting this issue. Good luck!

[Daniel Kelly Brown]

I can confirm as well that if you drop the shutter below 1/60 while shooting 60fps it reverts back to 30fps.  This is something that SONY should fix, they should make it so its not possible to drop your shutter down below 1/60 while shooting 60fps...on auto shutter or manual.  If you are having this problem you can still slow the footage down to 80% in a 23.976fps time line.

[sethm32668681]

I had this same problem last year and found a work around, but it's a huge pain. Drop the 59.94 footage onto a 30 fps sequence. This will effectively drop the duplicate frames that the sony records when the shutter speed is under 60. String whatever clips you need together and export them as an mp4. Then take your exported clips into After effects, from here use the "time warp"effect. If you have 40 seconds of realtime (at 30 fps) clips, then you need to drag it out to around 80 seconds. This will slow the footage down to the half speed you're looking for, however it will still be a little choppy. Applying a "motion blur" in after effects can help smooth this out. Then take it back into Premier and interpret to 24. At least I think thats how I did it, its been some time now.

I was actually just checking back, because I did it AGAIN, on accident, to see if anyone else had found an easier, less time confusing solution. good luck

[DMH79 · Accepted solution]

I know this is an old thread that's been newly posted to, but I figured I'd add that Premiere now has a somewhat hidden new feature that's awesome. You can slow down even 24p footage on a 24p timeline to 50% and it stays pretty smooth using Premiere's new "Optical Flow" option. It's in the drop down menu of the Speed/Duration settings. Choose that, render, and playback. Sweeeeet! Might save you the hassle of doing all those steps you just mentioned to slow things down smoothly. Anyway, carry on...

[sethm32668681]

This is a great tip! While it won't be perfect, as if you'd shot it at the CORRECT shutter speed, it works really well.

When dropping a 59.94 clip onto a 24 timeline, DON'T match settings. Then use the optical flow around 50% speed.

If you interpret your 59.94 clip to 23.976, drop it onto the 24 timeline and instead of slowing down, speed it up with the optical flow to around 110% or so.

It seems to help by dropping all or most of the duplicate frames depending on your %. Both look pretty good, like I said, not perfect, but you gotta pay the piper I suppose..

[stefan_gru]

Here's a tutorial showing optical flow and time remapping in action: Simple slow motion | Adobe Premiere Pro CC tutorials

[svidano]

I appreciate your additional information.  It is helpful.  But this does not address the origninal question of the user michaelduffy1884.

Michael was asking specifically about why the MODIFY FUNCTION is not working with the A7s footage.  I have run into the same issue.  This has nothing to do with shutter speed, or choppy playback, or anything related to adding a motion effect.  The question has to do with "Why the A7s footage is not playing back in slow-motion when you MODIFY the clip to be native 23.976...after it was shot in 59.97."  That's the issue at hand.  It's not working in PP.  Thanks.   

[Jeff Bellune]

Maybe some metadata the A7 throws in to the mix?

It may have to do with how you import the clips. Did you use the Media Browser in Pr? My 59.94 clips from my NX5U interpret down to 23.976 exactly as expected when importing with the MB. I didn't test any other import methods.

[svidano]

Nope.  Doesn't matter if I hand drag the footage in to premiere pro or "Import" via Media Browser.

BUT...I think I found the issue.  I have to have 3 boxes checked inside the PP Preferences / Media panel for the MODIFY option to work on my footage.  Go into Preferences, then go to Media (left column inside Preferences).  Then make sure the 3 boxes are checked that say "Write XMP ID to files on import", and "Write clip markers to XMP", and "Enable clip and XMP metadata linking."

** Important.  Once you check the boxes PP will NOT read the metadata of the clips you are trying to affect.  You have to RE-IMPORT THE CLIPS for the new "checked boxes / options" to take effect.  

NOW when I right clicka and MODIFY the clip and choose the frame rate to be 23.976 instead of 59.97 IT FINALLY PLAYS BACK AT SLOW-MOTION...the way it was originally meant to play back (because the camera operator chose to record the footage at 59.97 and play back at 23.976). 

Ugh.  Such a bummer i have to go back and do pulls on all the footage again.  But, I'm glad I figured it out in PP.

I'll include a screencapture of it.