Need clarification on logo usage under extended license

[shereen44149649]

Hello ASC,

I have created a logo for a client using one of Stock's vector graphics. The graphic is literally a logo with a text indicating "Company". When I reviewed Adobe's Additional Term for the Extended license, I discovered the following note (boxed in red), which feels like conflicting information.

Does it mean I can't use the graphic as a logo? Even though the graphic is a logo? Would love some clarification on this matter.

[Abambo]

That's what it says. You can't use a stock asset as a logo. A logo would need to get exclusive access to the asset. That's not possible. In my eyes, all those "logo" assets in the database should be purged from the database.

If you have acquired the asset, I suggest you contact Adobe Customer Care for a refund. Adobe customer care can be contacted by beginning a secure chat session at https://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html?rghtup=autoOpen. If the chat window fails to open, or is non-responsive, use a different device to start the interaction.

(see also here: https://community.adobe.com/t5/creative-cloud-services/how-to-contact-adobe-support/td-p/11875703 or here
https://community.adobe.com/t5/account-payment-plan/how-to-contact-adobe-support/td-p/11843852)

[shereen44149649]

Hello there. Since posting this thread, my client would stilll like to use the graphic but no longer as a logo. Unfortunately the image has been taken down from Adobe Stock. Can someone send me the vector image #12074025? I still have access to the standard license.

[Abambo]

Sorry, if the asset has been taken down, it is no more available. Taking down an asset may have more than one cause (the contributor deletes, Adobe deletes), but the basic effect of this is that the asset can't be downloaded any more. If you don't have a copy of it on your system, you should talk to your customer that it won't be possible to use that asset because the licence has been revoked. As for your situation, I would recommend contacting Adobe customer care for your lost asset point. Adobe customer care can be contacted by beginning a secure chat session at https://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html?rghtup=autoOpen. If the chat window fails to open, or is non-responsive, use a different device to start the interaction.

(see also here: https://community.adobe.com/t5/creative-cloud-services/how-to-contact-adobe-support/td-p/11875703 or here
https://community.adobe.com/t5/account-payment-plan/how-to-contact-adobe-support/td-p/11843852)

[Test Screen Name]

It doesn't say you can't make a logo, but it does say you can't make a trademark or service mark. That may well not suit your client; imagine becoming an international name and finding the logo that grew with you cannot be protected. Some have argued that "logos" should be removed from the catalog. 

[J E L]

This continues to be a grey area of law for some but it is easily avoided. There have long been questions about copyright issues in using stock vectors or clip art images in company logos. Unless a company buys the explicit rights for logo use from the original illustrator or copyright holder (not a third party agent or stock site) the company may not hold the full copyright of their own logo. Most companies use in-house or work-for-hire designers in the first place so they own the logo outright. I always recommend creating original logos directly for this very reason. As Test Screen Name writes below, discontinuing the term “logos” may help clear up the confusion a bit but the problem is clear information up front. For example, clear wording should state that using or incorporating someone else’s art or imagery in a company logo should always include complete and full permission to do so from the copyright holder. My two cents. Let us know what you find out!

[Abambo]

Unless a company buys the explicit rights for logo use from the original illustrator or copyright holder (not a third party agent or stock site) the company may not hold the full copyright of their own logo.

By @J E L

If you buy from a stock site, you never own the copyright. Even Adobe does not own the copyright. The original creator is still the copyright holder. What the buyer acquires is the right to use the asset according to the licence conditions. Other buyers acquire the same right to use.

Logos are specific original creations, where the buyer wants to have exclusive rights and access to the logo, including the right to register the logo as a trademark. If the logo graphics sources from stock, other stock buyers could not use the graphic any more or the trademark owner would lose his trademark. In both cases this would be a catastrophic situation also for the stock provider. You can't use stock material for logos for this precise reason.

The bad is, however, that Adobe (or Fotolia before) did not refuse assets during the vetting process, when the title or the keywords contained the word "logo". But I suppose this has changed, if I interpret the post here correctly.

[J E L]

@Abambo "If you buy from a stock site, you never own the copyright." 

Yes, that’s pretty much correct. However, you can purchase the full copyright from an agency if the agency and/or the copyright holder is willing to do so. Often, agencies have acquired or purchased the copyright themselves from the original content creator through work-for-hire contracts or directly from the copyright holder. Stock agencies can, and do, hold copyright to a portion of their content. Obviously, there is a good reason for them to do so. They continually seek to commission work and wholly-acquire assets from libraries, collections, or individuals specifically so they can control the copyright. The cost to purchase a complete copyright (a buyout) from anyone is expensive, so, it’s very rare, but it does happen, especially when a company is willing to pay for having complete and exclusive ownership of the content. This typically only happens with rights managed images where the usage history of an image can be verified. I always hesitate to say never!

[Abambo]

As a graphic designer, if I create content for you, you will have exclusive usage rights according to a custom licensing contract. That is the general case of a designer's work. I may keep some rights (so that you need to come back to me, if you want modifications) or I may sell you all rights plus the source files, so that you can independently modify my stuff. 

Stock, however, works differently. The customer get nonexclusive limited rights in exchange for lower costs. This can still be royalty free or rights managed. There is no per se relationship between exclusive content and rights managed or royalty free content. 

Advertising agencies produce exclusive content against premium payement. But their services are far mor reaching then just content creation.

[J E L]

Yes, of course, everything is negotiable! Anyone wishing to license content from a stock agency can always contact the agency directly to inquire about acquiring special, exclusive, or extended licensing rights when needed. A simple automatic stock purchase transaction via download comes with a one or two license choices you can select based on what you need and then you must abide by the parameters of that license in your usage application. But should the license you want, such as a copyright buyout I mentioned in this discussion for a company logo, not be offered by the stock agency in their basic license choices, you can always contact the agency to see what you might be able to work out.

[Abambo]

But should the license you want, such as a copyright buyout I mentioned in this discussion for a company logo, not be offered by the stock agency in their basic license choices, you can always contact the agency to see what you might be able to work out.

By @J E L

Stock agencies terms are non-negotiable. Either you accept the terms or you walk away. This is true at least for the big players...

[J E L]

True, when it comes to Adobe Stock. This is their policy:

Common Questions, Adobe Stock

[Abambo]

True, when it comes to Adobe Stock.

By @J E L

You can add Shutterstock and iStock to the list. 😉

It is indeed impossible to allow logos and attribute non-exclusive licences. It is explicitly written in the terms because laymen may not make the correct assumptions from getting a non-exclusive licence.