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Samoreen
Advisor
Samoreen
Advisor
Activity
‎Jul 29, 2017
04:00 AM
With a 30% increase in the subscriber base in 18 months-I wouldn't mind owning a product that near to the end of it's life cycle. Beware ! You are advocating for the old licensing model . If a product is nearing the end of its life cycle, there's no justification for a subscription. Just pay once for the product in its current state and that's it. If old bugs can't be fixed and if new features are just marginal, why continue to pay (unless you are forced to do so) ?
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‎Jul 29, 2017
03:52 AM
from the way you speak you would think it crashed every ten minutes and it just doesn't. Wrong conclusion . First, my initial post was not specifically about about Photoshop but about Adobe software in general. That's why I posted to the Adobe Creative Cloud forum and wondered why the thread was moved to a Photoshop section. Moreover I never said that PS or LR (which are applications that I'm using daily) are crashing all the time. Actually, I only had a few rare crashes with Lightroom and PS during the past years. But crashing is not the only way to annoy the user. I'm speaking about bugs that make my everyday life less easy than it should be. For example, when I regularly spend time in Lightroom fixing the side effects of the metadata status bug on my workflow - and this since version 1 - , I think that could use my time in a better way. People who are happy with a software because none of its bugs affects the way they are using it tend to consider that other users necessarily have the same experience with that software. It seems to be your case. Congrats ! But you should not consider that users complaining about bugs and odd design issues necessarily do that because they like grumbling. Now a question : does being an Adobe ACP or MVP mean being an Adobe evangelist ?
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‎Jul 29, 2017
03:03 AM
The engineer gave a whole list of conditions for fixing bugs, including ones that they won't touch because it would actually require a major rewrite of the application's code. Another sign that a product is reaching the end of its life cycle.
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‎Jul 29, 2017
01:47 AM
I do not know of any software company that is not susceptible to bugs creeping into the updates. It is part of the beast. Not necessarily. It depends on the development methodology that is used. I have been teaching for years methodologies allowing to dramatically limit regression problems. They give excellent results. However they are rarely used for one main reason : they are moving the costs from one dpt. to another. Using these methodologies makes the initial development longer (hence raise the initial development costs) but ensure a much better code quality and therefore, much less maintenance and customer support is needed (which dramatically reduce the costs on the long term). But well, you know, short term vision is now the rule. But nowadays, software engineers no longer have the power : the sales dpt. decides when the software must be released, be it ready or not, even if this impacts the product quality. They want to sell the product first and fix the problems after the fact, when the users discover them. So the development must be done as quickly as possible. Quality and maintenance is something of less importance.
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‎Jul 29, 2017
01:06 AM
One of the Adobe engineers was explaining that some bugs can't be fixed because they're so rooted into the code of PS that it would be completely impractical for Adobe to fix them. I have heard this so many times... This is just an evidence for bad design. Another issue is that PS is old, there are modules of it that were written decades ago, and the person who wrote that code is no longer with Adobe. It can be a can of worms for someone new to try and understand the code and fix issues with it. Generally, this is because the original coder didn't commented/documented his code correctly. Writing lines of code is just a small part of the job. Commenting and documenting the code ensures easier transmission to others and easier maintenance. The project manager should make sure that this is done correctly.
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‎Jul 28, 2017
01:58 PM
I'm wondering why this thread has been moved to Photoshop General Discussion while I originally started it in Adobe Creative Cloud ?
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‎Jul 28, 2017
01:30 PM
Countless custom classes reference that folder and the omission of the backslash may have been done deliberately to counter a much more fundamental and difficult problem If this is really how programmers at Adobe work, then the quality problem is more serious than I thought but no longer a surprise. Voluntarily creating a bug in order to fix another one is strange practice, to say the least. If this is necessary, this just demonstrates a big design mistake. a quick fix maybe but programmers do that kind of thing all the time Not in a professional world. Programmers working this way are just amateurs. Can't believe that...
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‎Jul 28, 2017
09:22 AM
Hi, Well, you answered your own question: subscription or not has nothing to do with it. I do not agree and you and Martin are off-topic. The CC Desktop application, which is tied to the CC subscription model, should provide for faster and easier distribution of bug fixes as explained above. I'm not discussing about piracy or about the financial benefits of the CC subscription. I'm saying that this model fails to make things better regarding maintenance although it could and should have do so. You and Martin do not answer my questions about the way Adobe (don't) provide a satisfactory quality level for their software. That's what I want to discuss because, as a developer, I see that the quality assurance dpt. at Adobe is having a problem that should be handled. Well, I didn't expect ACPs to play the bad guys, though . Don't behave as watchdogs against the CC subscription bashing. My post is not against the subscription model itself, it's about what it fails to deliver. and each time, there is a fix or a nice feature. A new feature is good when it builds upon a stabilized and consolidated software. A fix is a good thing when it doesn't introduce new bugs. The past two years have clearly demonstrated that regression testing is something that Adobe have to work on.
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‎Jul 28, 2017
04:52 AM
For me, the answer is clearly no. The main reason is that the CC subscription was supposed to accelerate the pace of bug corrections. What I observe (in PS and LR) is that very old bugs lasting since years and that are extremely easy to fix are still there. Why ? Because bugs considered as minor are moved to the end of the todo list and will always have a lower priority level as newly discovered, more severe bugs. Conclusion : they will never be fixed. These bugs might be minor but they are often extremely annoying (e.g. the infamous metadata status bug in LR lasting since version 1, the mouse cursor bug in the left pane in LR lasting since years, the zxpsignxxxxxx temp files bug in PS, etc - the list is rather long). This has a significant impact on customer satisfaction. So someone should look at them. I'm a former developer and project manager and I already suggested to apply a method that I always used in the past : the "todo" list should be worked on from both ends. The majority of available development/maintenance resources should be dedicated to the most urgent bugs but some developers should work on the low priority bugs which are most of the time very easy to fix. Or the maintenance developers should spend a part of their time looking at these low priority bugs what they obviously never do. Anyway, what I describe here was already a problem before the CC subscription and absolutely nothing has changed about that since the CC subscription exists. The CC Desktop application was supposed to ease "real time" corrections. This is not the case. Let's take an example : the zxpsignxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx temp files problem in PS is a beginner programming error that can be fixed in less than a few minutes, recompiling included (see here : Photoshop CC 2015.5 fills directory C:\Temp with "Userzxpsign*" folders instead of correct location C:\Temp\User | Phot… ). The problem is identified, the fix is super easy and the CC Desktop app could be used to replace the faulty program : CEPHtmlEngine.exe . No need to reinstall or replace the whole PS app. Just replace CEPHtmlEngine.exe and that's it. Quick, easy, problem fixed, users satisfied. This raises questions. Why do Adobe don't care about these problems ? Why don't they use the CC Desktop app to handle such issues while this tool was obviously created for that ? For the moment, I see only one answer : because the subscription model makes them lazy about customer satisfaction and software quality.
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‎Jul 28, 2017
02:30 AM
5 Upvotes
Khoa_SV wrote I've found the culprit! It's the new "start workspace" extension. Actually, the culprit is the developer who forgot to add the missing \ in his code. Not loading the extension panels is not a solution for those who are using tools based on such panels. The solution is to fix that code which should take no more that 2 minutes. The problem is indeed in CEPHtmlEngine.exe at offset 267168 (hex). Unfortunately, there's no room left to patch the zxpsign%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% string and add the missing backslash. What could be done is to replace the leading z with a backslash using an hex editor but this may have side effects, so I do not recommend this. Moreover, since these are temporary files, they should be removed when exiting PS and this can't be fixed with a patch. A good programmer should always clean up before leaving the toilet.
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‎Jul 11, 2017
12:20 AM
1 Upvote
Adobe, please do us a pleasure and do what you should have done even before installing this software : drop Jive.
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‎Jul 06, 2017
02:46 AM
Problem back for me too. Now also in Internet Explorer and Edge (+ Chrome and Firefox). Removing the Adobe and Jive cookies again fixed the problem. Signing in again becomes of course necessary.
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‎Jul 02, 2017
02:01 AM
MadisonMLeupp wrote -Some browsers should let you clear cookies for just forums.adobe.com, too Clearing only the Adobe cookies might not be enough. In Firefox, I also had to clear the Jive cookies. Not a surprise since the problem appears to be related to the login process as I explained on Photoshop Family. Very frankly, I'm wondering why Adobe continue to use this crappy, slow software for their forums.
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‎Jul 01, 2017
02:10 AM
Thanks Richard for taking the time to make this interesting test.
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‎Jun 30, 2017
03:16 PM
1 Upvote
joefry99 wrote " but the order does matter." That can't be right. Consider that if that were true, one could create two different appearances from identical images with same settings but different based solely on applied slider order! Misunderstanding. This is not what Martin means. The LR engine always handles settings in the same order but the result would be different if the Tone Curve tool settings were applied before the Contrast slider setting. Of course, the order in which the user sets these settings has no impact on the result.
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‎Jun 30, 2017
07:42 AM
I got in touch with Martin and here is his answer : The way to look at this is that the Basic panel adjustments are applied first in the Camera Raw pipeline. Therefore, it makes most sense to do all the 'heavy lifting' in the Basic panel, where you can use the Contrast slider to add or reduce the global contrast. I have always been told that happens in the Tone Curve is further along in the Camera Raw pipeline and contrast adjustments applied here are cumulative to those applied in Basic. There is essentially an interlinked relationship between Basic and Tone Curve, but the order does matter. Because you can use either to have a cumulative contrast adjustment effect. It is best however to start with the main Contrast slider in Basic to apply first. That way you gain more precision to make refined Tone Curve adjustments using the Tone Curve panel. Doing it in reverse can work, but it is a bit like using the tail to wag the dog.
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‎Jun 30, 2017
06:35 AM
https://forums.adobe.com/people/john+beardsworth wrote Don't you think you're reading too much into Martin's use of "relative"? One can equally say when you go to the Basic panel [...], the adjustments you apply here are applied relative to the contrast adjustment that's already been applied in the Tone Curve panel . Only the Adobe development team knows. However, I always thought that the displayed preview was the result of applying the current settings to the base data always in the same order (this is why using the various development settings in a given order is not that important - although the suggested top-down order is rather logical). In that case, Martin's statement makes more sense.
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‎Jun 30, 2017
02:40 AM
1 Upvote
https://forums.adobe.com/people/john+beardsworth wrote Martin might say "interlinked" and my word is "cumulative'. The Tone Curve and the Contrast slider both work on the base data. Think of the expression x times y times z - the sequence of y and z doesn't make any difference. Let's assume that the Tone Curve tool is set in such a way that for the input value of 80, the output value should be say, 85. That's an increase of 5. Now, let's assume that I move the Contrast slider to the right. A new output value will be computed for the input value of 80. Say, 83 (I don't know exactly how big the increase will be since, contrary to the Tone Curve tool, the Contrast slider doesn't give any indication about what it is doing. So we have an increase of 3. You tell me that both additions will apply to the base data. That is, the input value of 80 will become 88. What Martin Evening is saying is that the Tone Curve profile applies to the data already modified by the Contrast slider. So the addition made by the Tone Curve tool will not be the one computed for the input value of 80 but the one computed for the input value of 83, which will certainly be different. I'm not sure that I'll be able to setup a test in order to determine which algorithm is the correct one. Maybe using a calibration target. Is it worth it ? Not sure. I'm just curious about how LR contrast tools work. Obviously, opinions vary about that. Only the developer can tell...
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‎Jun 30, 2017
02:04 AM
https://forums.adobe.com/people/Conrad+C wrote Instead of looking for a curve that would show the effect of Contrast + Tone Curve (but not any other adjustments?), one way to see the effects right now would be to look at the histogram. Thanks Conrad. However, this is not exactly the same thing. Looking at the histogram or at the image itself show me the result of applying the "profile" computed from the Tone Curve and Contrast slider settings. I'm interested in seeing the combining profile itself.
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‎Jun 29, 2017
05:02 AM
https://forums.adobe.com/people/john+beardsworth wrote Maybe you just haven't understood their answers? Never got one. I have no problem understanding any explanation about how LR works, provided an explanation is given. By chance I eventually found an excerpt of Martin Evening's LR 5 book that says : "Basically, the two are interlinked. ... when you go to the Tone Curve panel [...], the adjustments you apply here are applied relative to the contrast adjustment that's already been applied in the Basic panel". So this would explain why adjusting the Contrast slider in the Basic panel has no effect on the tone curve itself although the base data used by the Tone Curve tool are changed : the Tone Curve tool doesn't use the original image data but the data already modified by the Contrast slider. It acts as a profile applied to the tone data resulting from the changes made in the Basic panel. I guess this is the same when using the Contrast slider after the Tone Curve tool. This seems to be logical. If someone at Adobe could confirm... In which case, it would be interesting to be able to display a curve showing the cumulative effect of both tools in order to see the actual "profile" applied to the original data (could be an option in the Tone Curve panel).
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‎Jun 29, 2017
03:11 AM
Up. I have asked many experts and posted this question in various forums but nobody seems to be able to answer this (silly ?) question. Or am I unclear ?
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‎Jun 28, 2017
01:01 AM
Joanne, You're correct : 8 months to not fix this is not acceptable (I remember that the CC subscription was made to provide a faster maintenance cycle :-)) ). But Adobe have a very special maintenance system. Once a bug has reached a given lifetime, it gets even more chances to survive. It will never get to the top of the todo list. There are numerous examples of this. Usually, these are bugs that are apparently very easy to fix (from a developer's point of view) - I mean, within a few minutes - but they are considered minor. That's why they never reach the top of the list : there will always be bugs that are "less minor". So they are still there after years. They become history or even features. IMHO, there should be two different maintenance teams : one handling the most urgent bugs and a smaller team handling bugs from the bottom up in the priority list. Since these bugs are usually easy to fix, they could handle a lot of them rather quickly. As a former software project manager, this is what I did. These "minor" but annoying bugs are those that irritate the user the most. Handling them quickly would raise the customer satisfaction level. Apparently, they can't understand this at Adobe.
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‎Jun 06, 2017
05:04 AM
Hi, I can adjust the contrast of an image either by using the contrast slider or by using the Tone Curve tool (or both). However, I never got clear explanations about how both tools interact. I can see that using the contrast slider doesn't modify the tone curve. So what data are referenced by the contrast slider when computing the contrast ? The original data or the data modified by the tone curve ? Reversely, does the tone curve tool act on the original data or on the data modified by the contrast slider ? Are these tools applied in a given order ? Always the same ? Thanks in advance.
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‎Apr 05, 2017
09:19 AM
1 Upvote
Hi,
In
LR, there's absolutely no possibility to edit the custom cropping
ratios. Which is already a problem that should have been fixed since a
long time. Now let's assume that the stacking mechanism managing these
custom ratios (5 entries max and first in first out management) is
corrupted and stuck. What can you do ? If you are a user with no
database management skills, nothing. Period.
Strangely
enough, these settings are not stored in the preference file where they
could be manually edited but in the catalog, a SQLite database. If you
can deal with an SQLite management tool, you will be able to fix the
problem. The relevant information can be found in the table named Adobe_variablesTable, entry named Adobe_customCropAspects.
Maybe it's time for Adobe to make this feature more usable ?
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‎Mar 11, 2017
03:20 AM
> It seems the cursor (which probably comes from the panel resizer at the
right > edge of that panel) is only changed back to default in a very
tiny area between > the resizer and the folders list, but not on the
folders list control itself. Which certainly means that the mouse events don't propagate to the child windows of the main panel window. Probably a window style not correctly set.
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‎Mar 09, 2017
05:05 AM
Still not fixed in 2015.9. Anyone at Adobe needing an SQL course ?
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‎Mar 08, 2017
02:27 PM
Still not fixed after all these years. I can't believe it. Programming the mouse is one of the first things you learn when developing for Windows.
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‎Mar 08, 2017
02:05 PM
Problem already reported here 4 months ago. No answer
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‎Mar 08, 2017
01:58 PM
2 Upvotes
Still not fixed in latest release. For those at Adobe who continue to pretend that this is a problem with a third-party plugin : please have a look at C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CC 2017\ZXPSignLib-minimal.dll . The "zxpsign" prefix of the offending temporary files is defined in this DLL. A 2 minutes fix for a bug lasting since months. Not serious.
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‎Feb 20, 2017
01:27 AM
1 Upvote
Got it! Actually, it's a side effect of the bug reported here which is lasting since version 1 : https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/wrong-timestamp-stored-in-lightroom-catalog-c... I just remembered that I have been recently hit by this bug and I found myself with a lot of images for which the metadata status was wrong. So I used the write/read XMP method to fix the problem. Unfortunately, LR considers this as an editing operation although no setting has been actually changed. Conclusion : bugs that are not timely handled are never fixed by themselves. They just generate more trouble with time. We have now version 6 and the time stamp bug is here since version 1. Time to do something.
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