those who found this preview issue, are you using a Wide Gamut display and perhaps using more than one display on your system, and running OS X? Something odd is going on here with perviews. i appreciate your attention on this; i think you are going off track a bit my original Ps PDF displays exactly as Photoshop Tagged objects appear to be properly read and converted to monitor rgb untagged are assumed to be Acrobat's Working RGB Acrobat Object Inspector confirms my original Ps PDF: the five Tagged objects retained their Photoshop PDF embedded profiles the five Untagged objects are "Device" and appear to be unchanged my Acrobat Converted Colors (Ps) PDF is also as clear and provable using Object Inspector (to examine the profiles), and Acrobat AND Photoshop to PROOF the sets reference my post #14 While I can get both the TIFF and Photoshop PDF to match color in ID and in Photoshop, they don't match the previews in Acrobat 11. Confused... i have no problem matching Ps and Acrobat display results, it's totally predictable here (and provable) Photoshop PDF> Acrobat> Convert Colors strips the Photoshop embedded profiles, Assumes its Working profile, and Converts to the Destination ... View more

IF I save as Photoshop PDF and Photoshop TIFF, both appear the same in ID. yes, that's what i see, too the tagged Ps PDFs dispay properly when Placed in ID and they Export (Print) properly to PDF, and display properly in Acrobat here is my Exported Ps PDF to Acrobat PDF the problem occures when Acrobat CONVERT COLORS is applied my monitor and Object Inspector indicate that the profiles embedded in my Ps PDFs were stripped, Acrobat's Working Profile is Assumed and then Converted to the Destination this is most obvious in my post #14 screenshot ... View more

b/w images definately look greenish open an RGB image in Photoshop Select> All Image> Adjustments> Desaturate if your grays still have green in them, that is a sure sign your monitor profile is off assuming you have the settings okay, you probably have a defective (or incompatible) colorimeter (puck) ... View more

i slugged the missing profile issue out here http://forums.adobe.com/message/5101042 if anyone uses this workflow InDesign> Export PDF> Adobe PDF (Print) it's too bad it doesn't work like the Adobe dialogs indicate it should (retain all embedded profiles) because i really find the engine useful otherwise ... View more

what's to say -- seeing is believing -- i filed a bug report on this, too ... View more

Andrew, I looked at my new InDesign 8.0.1> Export PDF document and noticed it is stripping one of the four embedded profiles (the Tagged sRGB). Acrobat's 10.1.5 Object Inspector (and changing Acrobat's Working RGB confirms this) even though InDesign's Profile Inclusion Policy is set to "Include Tagged Source Profiles". The other three Tagged files exported unchanged as expected (they display correctly and Object Inspector shows the correct profile embedded). Do you have any idea why it is stripping the sRGB profile (sRGB was the Working RGB in both InDesign and Acrobat during my tests). My .indd and screenshots and exported .pdf are ZIP HERE Thanks for any time... ... View more

yes, i believe the Photoshop jpg are fine remember i did Photoshop Save As .pdf opened one of them in Acrobat and dragged the other nine pdf into its Pages Panel that's how i packaged the problem original pdf the one that involved InDesign (my last that you recommended) worked perfectly thanks again, Andrew ... View more

. okay, i will take my original 10 iPhoto .jpg test images i packaged in Photoshop and set them up in InDesign and Export PDF... i will crap if the tagged 5 don't display correctly in the pdf, but i don't expect Acrobat to Convert Colors any differently (i will hope i am wrong on this last point) ... View more

question becomes, what settings do you have for Convert TO PDF and could that affect what is happening here? Or did you build this in InDesign then use IT to build the PDF? i took my iPhoto Tutorial images (the 10 .jpg images) into Photoshop and save each one as Photoshop PDF as marked (tagged/untagged) then i dragged one into Acrobat and then the rest into its Pages Panel, then Saved/uploaded it Acrobat appears to see the embedded profiles but it doesn't seem to honor them when converting exacto ... View more

you're saying it's the prevews that are the issue? yes, exactly, and what Photoshop is telling me when i open the Converted pdf in Ps (screenshot post #14) based on Acrobat's display and Photoshop's confirmation of what i observed -- i don't see how the converted tagged set could print as the original PDI image (but i will give it a try, i am not sure how to print a Source Profile> Print Profile out of Acrobat on my Epson 7880, but i will look a little deep than last several times i looked) now i am super curious about InDesign Export PDF i need to put this aside for a few days and give my neurosis a break... Thank you again! ... View more

Andrew, it looks like we had the same approach to Convert Colors settings? and similar results (using Acrobat Working RGB: ProPhoto)? it is pretty perplexing... the Converted pdfs obviously don't display correctly and i will guess they print just as badly (although i haven't tried printing yet) and i notice InDesign Export PDF has the same interface -- i wonder if it has the same problem -- or if i am still missing something... ... View more

got your pdfs -- thank you! opened in Acrobat 10.1.5 OSX SETTINGS: RESULTS: ... View more

g5b at gballard net posting a screenshot of your Acrobat's View> Tools> Print Production> Convert Colors settings would be most appreciated (because i probably won't understand it any other way) thank you so much in advance! ... View more

There are no warnings in Photoshop. Did we ever get warnings, opening PDFs? here is what i get opening the first two images in my original test pdf (i dragged it into Photoshop CS6 both times) they are the Tagged and Untagged ProPhoto RGB pair and they display proper in Ps using the ProPhoto ICC profile.  I get a warning on each of the nine images doing this except for the Tagged sRGB: again, seeing is believing you are a real color scientist, Gernot, and i thank you for enlightening this conversation with your knowledge i posted a more focused ACROBAT CONVERT COLORS TUTORIAL on my website - this was a real eye opener for me and i truly hope i missed something basic, that someone proves me wrong using my PDF... ... View more

Gernot, if you are still there. I don't understand your cchecker-lab-srgb.pdf I open it in Photoshop CS6 and CS5.1 and do not hit a profile warning (ProPhotoRGB or sRGB working RGB) -- that's really odd in my experience: Acrobat's Object Inspector references LabProfile: Is Lab an ICC profile? How do I display it properly in Photoshop (what source profile do I assign)? Sorry, I don't know anything about Lab. ... View more

PS: Gernot, if you (or anyone else) can use an Acrobat "Convert Colors" maneuver to properly convert the Tagged images in my PDI_Color_Profile_Test.pdf to a single tagged destination profile (RGB or CMYK) -- I will be grateful if you could provide a screenshot of your View> Tools> Print Production> Convert Colors settings. ... View more

the ultimate test. your test, my test... i use my types of RGB source images in my desktop business and can't remember ever taking a file into lab (or receiving a lab document from a client) so it is hard for me to open my mind to the relevance of your test when my tests are clear and convincing yet you say your test works, i believe you, though i find it hard to see what you are doing without screenshots for my purposes -- the types of real-world RGB images i use on a daily basis -- Acrobat "convert colors" works like my notes and screenshots indicate seeing is believing... ... View more

thank you so much for dropping in, Larry i looked at your test files may i suggest you base your RGB .tifs on something a lot wider like ProPhotoRGB, and your Acrobat Working RGB to something bizarre like Whacked RGB (or vice versa) because any error will be visually obvious? because, if your tif is sRGB (tagged or untagged) and Acrobat's Working RGB is sRGB, Acrobat will display them correctly -- moreover -- Acrobat Convert Colors process will make the correct Assumption if its source images are sRGB (tagged or untagged) and its Working RGB is sRGB and I wouldn't expect to see any problems in any case ... View more

Gernot, i believe I figured out what is going on: During Acrobat's "Convert Colors" process (using my conversion settings): Acrobat IGNORES the profiles embedded in my RGB images. Acrobat "Assumes" its Working RGB profile (on all Tagged/Untagged images) and then Acrobat "Converts" everything to the Destination profile and embeds that profile. if you are interested in the screenshots that I believe prove this, feel free to look at post #10 here http://forums.adobe.com/message/5080394 ... View more

Gernot, that's pretty complicated experiment (for me to pull off)... my color management mantra boils down to what i can see:               "the proof is in the pudding (and the proof is where I rest my case)" my monitors appear to me (even in your converted pdf of my original) Acrobat's Convert Colors process "Assumed" Monitor RGB (or its working sRGB) and then Converted to my "Destination" space — and Photoshop clearly supports that theory as i posted above if your theory is Acrobat is correctly converting my tagged RGB images — Adobe ACE (CMS) is just using the wrong Source profile to display — i can't argue that EXCEPT the untagged images "match" their tagged mates (that's why I believe Acrobat is Assuming one source profile to Convert colors) but (excuse that), would not that scenario ALSO provide Adobe ACE with the wrong Source profile during a color-managed printing process (Source> Printer/Paper/Ink profile)? So what good is Converting colors to a tagged PDF if the tag is wrong? again, i am obviously missing something very basic about how Acrobat handles its Source> Destination conversions (not the least of which are the Adobe geniuses' unfamiliar terminology and UI)... ... View more

still curious to understand what i am seeing i opened one of my Converted .pdf documents in Photoshop and opened each of the five tagged elements (see screenshot) the results are clear and convincing what happened and i could easily duplicate these results in Photoshop by: open each original Tagged file (use embedded profile), Assign Profile: Monitor RGB (or possibly sRGB as mine are pretty close), Convert to Profile> Destination Space: Whacked RGB Save with embedded Whacked RGB ICC profile moreover, my original un-tagged images -- opened from my Converted Colors pdf -- also appear to have been Assigned MonitorRGB and Converted to Whacked RGB and Saved with the Whacked profile during Acrobats Convert Colors process using the below settings and that theory supports what i am seeing in my original and Converted Colors Acrobat documents here is a screenshot of the settings i used in the converted pdf that i opened in Photoshop ... View more

your test is for me too complex. i don't know how my test could be set up or concluded any more simply -- if seeing is believing in my opinion the operation Convert Color (here in Acrobat 8) works correctly in my post #10 -- i posted a screenshot of your Acrobat 8 Convert Color (of my .pdf) that screenshot shows none of the tagged files in your converted set are displaying properly as they do in my original .pdf (post #11 screenshot) my observation is simple: if Convert Color was working correctly, then Acrobat should display the converted tagged elements properly regardless if they are sRGB, ProPhotoRGB, AdobeRGB or WhackedRGB i am obviously missing something here... ... View more

BTW, here is the original set (screenshot): the Tagged left column all "match" (Source> Monitor conversion) the untagged right column each look very close to your test ... View more

Thank you! It looks to me all that happened was the process stripped the embedded profiles from the tagged set -- each matched pair has the appearance if I "Soft Proofed" Monitor RGB or sRGB (I am not sure which because they are very close, but nothing looks like ProPhoto except the ProPhoto set). What do you think, does it look like anything was Converted to ProPhoto? Clearly Acrobat Convert Colors isn't working (or what am I missing here?)... ... View more

If you unlock your PDF then I can try to Convert Colors. Okay, try it again (I disabled its security): http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/pdi_download/PDI_Color_Profile_Test.pdf Acrobat 10.1x | View> Tools> Print Production> Convert Colors  shows these options, any clues to simply Convert all tagged elements to the the Destination profile will be greatly appreciated (targeting destination WhackedRGB profile (or ProPhotoRGB) will make any problem much easier for me to observe): Note: my pea brain power limits my ability to judge a proper conversion by opening the Converted .pdf in Acrobat and seeing if the tagged elements are displaying properly (ie, they visually "match" as they do in my download). Thank you for your time, Gernot... ... View more

for me it's not clear, what you're trying to prove i am trying to prove that tagged elements actually Convert to a destination profile i am using Acrobat 10.1 (not using Distiller directly) i am not sure what Output Intent is and that may be where my tests are broken, but Checked or Unchecked the tagged elements don't appear to have been Converted (or they would all look correct) i am familiar with Source and Destination, but Acrobat doesn't use that terminology +++++++ would it be possible for you to run my pdf one time through your process (Convert to Whacked or ProPhoto destination so the results are obvious) and post a screenshot of the thumbnails similar to my examples +++++++ the real-world scenario would be to receive one PDF with several tagged elements -- for example, a vector logo in one CMYK space, text and filled boxes in another CMYK space, and two RGB elements in ProPhoto and sRGB -- and convert them all to a single destination profile i previously believed Acrobat's Print Production> Convert Colors would convert all tagged elements to the single destination profile it is clear i don't understand what's going on, but i want to... ... View more

. . i only ask if anyone knows how to set up a basic Source> Destination Conversion because i have done several jobs in the past where i thought i knew what was happening apparently wasn't -- now that i set up a controlled scenario with profiles that show i don't have a clue how to make basic Conversions in Acrobat ... View more

is the test designed to display through an unmanaged viewer or Ps Monitor RGB (proof setup)? PS using a hardware 'calibrated' 6500 2.2 monitor profile (sRGB type monitor), Ps (using sRGB source profile) -- zoomed in using Soft Proof MonitorRGB shows the slight color/density i would expect since that is a noticeable difference, i would expect color management affects the results and it is intended to be used outside of any color management ... View more

okay, still curious i zoomed in a few hundred percent in Ps and i see the colors you noted (Ps eye dropper confirms they are color) so Photoshop should display them gray at a certain zoom percent? also i notice the document doesn't have an embedded profile, wouldn't Ps require a profile to display the colors precisely to do their blending magic -- or is the test designed to display through an unmanaged viewer or Ps Monitor RGB (proof setup)? the website on the image isn't up any more -- do you have the text somewhere that came with this image -- i would love to know how it works ... View more