i wasn't able to follow this entire thread, but generally, from photoshop Edit> Convert to Profile> Destination Space: (the CMYK profile your printer recommends) if your printer 'genius' is clueless, US Web Coated SWOP v2 is a good bet if your color shifts on the monitor when you Convert RGB to CMYK profiles in photoshop, you need to read up on Out of Gamut colors, Gamut Warning and Soft Proofing in photoshop >>this still doesnt explain why my image looks good inside photoshop (working in CMYK) and then only looks awful when I open up the (jpeg/tiff) in any other program/browser aside from Mr. Cox pointed out about CMYK .jpg — only applications that read embedded profiles (or assume the correct source profile by default) will display or print the color as photoshop does probably saving in .tif for the printer is also a good idea (.jpg degrades pixel quality) PDF you could also setup the Conversion in a PDF (beware of behind-the-scenes jpg compression and mysterious profile issues tho)...but i would certainly NOT rasterise any type/text that you want vector sharp on the printed piece, and scream bloody murder if the print 'genius' drags your .pdf into photoshop and ruins your vector type sharpness ... View more

Any suggestions are very welcome if the epson application works stand alone, I would use it (and forget about scanning in photoshop) if it doesn't work, give VUESCAN a tryout: http://www.hamrick.com/ the TWAIN scanner plugin problems have been discussed many times try google this string:  forums.adobe.com chris cox twain plugin problem FIRST, most scanner apps are 32-bit (and flaky in photoshop), that means you will likely have to run CS5 in 32-bit and severly limit its access to your ram (32-bit mode is limited to about 3gb, 64-bit mode it can use all you can give it) SECOND, tie your scanner app, and keep photoshop freed up to continue working adobe usually suggests if you want to scan in photoshop as you wish, you need to install the optional adobe twain plugin, and obtain a compatable scanner app here is adobe (not sure if updated for LION): http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/405/kb405072.html http://www.twain.org/drivers.shtm www.gballard.net/photoshop/TWAIN/ ... View more

open file image> image size (copy Width as noted in screenshot) type in targe resolution in Resolution go back to Width, paste in original number notice your file (pixel dimensions) MB did not change (only the resolution)...this is one of the few moves you can make in Photoshop without degrading your pixel information (another one in image rotation) ... View more

I could swear that previous versions of Photoshop would tell me what fonts were missing when I opened a document. Font Agent Pro broke that feature. To test, remove the FontAgent Pro Helper.plugin and FontAgen Pro.plugin from Photoshop Plug-ins folder - relaunch Ps - and reopen your .psd To fix the problem, update your FAP plugins... ... View more

conniez68 sorry for your trouble with this issue. The only point you need to make to a troubleshooter is Photoshop is not displaying the Tagged PDI images correctly in Photoshop. Period. It should be routine for him to verify what profile Photoshop is using and for him to rule that profile out (about five minutes). Moreover, a person with a working knowledge of Windows Color Management should be able to easily (and quickly) pinpoint the part of your setup that is broken by tracing the workflow back to the point where what should be happening isn't. Another poster wrote of similar problems that involves your monitor and profiling package so maybe that's your most helpful post in solving your own issue, too. The monitor is easy to rule out by swapping it it out. However, the system is not so easy (because so many people have had their fingers on it). +++++++ In your shoes, I would put in a different hard drive, Erase it, install ONLY the OS, Photoshop and updates. If it fails at that point (with no more fiddling around), I would send it back to where you bought it and ask them why it doesn't work correctly. If it does work at that point, either the profiling package or the monitor you swapped out is the problem, or something is amiss in your old system. +++++++ I've seen my share of PC 'experts" at work, they always seem to fiddle around, uninstall, reinstall, fiddle around, uninstall, reinstall and come back to repeat the process...when they do solve a problem they never seem to understand why or what happened, it always seems to have magically fixed itself during their fiddling. People who understand the question generally get right to the issue (unless there are bugs or hardware issues to slow them down). I wish you the best luck in solving this. ... View more

Dell 2410/2711's wide gamut and the spyder's inability to calibrate it properly.  Problem solved. Thank you for posting your information about the Dell U2711 & U2410 displays because I have an interest in learning what the problem was here. The monitor profile and Spyder Pro profiling packages were pointed out as the most likely culprit early on this thread, but I am glad you figured it out there and posted your examples. I remember there was a certain Hitachi monitor that would not display properly using any custom profile and it too caused similar grief for everyone who tried to profile it... ... View more

chris bc 1 again, I am all ears to see how you solve this post with your great knowledge of windows color management and wide gamut monitor spaces ... View more

"gator soup", How about giving the "convert to sRGB" mantra a rest? Okay, Chris_BC_1, it appears you know how Windows interacts with profiles and color-managed apps, so I will sit back and maybe learn something about this problem myself... ... View more

some of us are just trying to ensure a reasonable amount of consistencies when our work are view by others on their own system, which may not be colour space aware nor profiled correctly. the only simple answer to that question is: CONVERT to sRGB (if you are not already there) and Save As with an embedded sRGB profile, then hand off your file I am not sure how to approach an explanation without using a 'technical' discussion about how color spaces interact... but a clue to the problem is standard sRGB color is a lot different than wide-gamut RGB monitor color in Photoshop, open one of your tagged sRGB files (use the embedded profile), then View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB seeing is believing... ... View more

Gator soup appears to assume you don't know that turning off color management will change the colors The problem (and my point) is we can NOT "turn color management off". We can only force our app/device to assume its default profile that may or may not match the source color space. And I recall that point was made and reinforced early on this thread, as was building bad/defective/incompatible monitor profiles and using broken color settings... But anyone is certainly welcome to ignore my posts. ... View more

If you are going to use a wide-gamut monitor, you will need to embed ICC profiles and use software that reads embedded profiles. If that doesn't fix the problem, I would recommend starting a new thread (and avoiding this thread altogether). ... View more

Connie is on an iMAC now. If I'm not wrong, iMAC has its  own display  which is sRGB only. I'm not sure about that, but if so, its  no wonder  she has her "colors back" Set color management in PS to OFF load one of the desaturated image, a PSD (not JPEG yet) Say "discard the profile" if CS complains (appears only when "ask when opening" is checked) Asssign a large profile, starting by aRGB via ProPhoto and last Wide-Gamut. Let me know which comes closes to what you expect to see, if any. ablichter I actually read through your latest post several times despite your disrespectful tone (so I could try and understand what on Earth you are talking about). You are probably a nice person, but you really have your theories mixed up.... Good day (and good luck). ... View more

let me say it like this (assuming your mac is displaying properly and both windows and mac photoshop color settings match) USE THE EMBEDDED PROFILE, do not convert open the full-rez whackedrgb.jpg I linked you to earlier on your mac photoshop monitor then open it on your windows photoshop monitor if the windows monitor doesn't match your mac monitor (for all practical purposes): your windows photoshop is using a bad monitor profile +++++++ if you want a second opinion, simply on the mac, drag the whacked rgb file into an open safari window on the windows, do the same thing and compare you should see the same results the photoshops are giving you +++++++ this is not an adobe problem, adobe is only bringing the problem to your attention (like all the other color-managed apps you are using) why adobe employees can't tell you this outright is a mystery unless they suspect something else is going on and they are investigating it ... View more

Sorry when sounding harsh No apology needed for me...but for other people who may stumble across this thread because they, too, are stumped why "color desats" in some of their applications and not others: The basic theory and troubleshooting are (in most cases) no way as complicated and/or hopeless as presented in this thread. The OP's most recent statement that only "NON-color managed programs" display color properly points directly to a bad monitor profile (or a basic mix-up of how profiles work). Getting the profiles in order (with a known good test image) and ruling out a bad monitor profile should take a user less than 15 minutes. If color-managed apps like Photoshop are still not displaying proper saturation (on known good files) after the profiles are confirmed — it's going to be either how the software is misconfigured, haxied or corrupted, or bad/incompatible hardware. But agreed, it sounds like a fresh installed Windows 7 and to exchange the video card are decisive steps to rule out the video card and install. ... View more

only exhibiting true information in NON-color managed programs what monitor profile are you using to get this info from Photoshop: Edit> Color Settings> Working Spaces: click on RGB and expand your choices (as in my screenshot) then click on Monitor RGB (to highlight it) and take a screen shot (like this): then post it here also please post a screen shot of your Color Settings +++++++ where I am going is that "color only looks bad in color-managed apps" is classic bad monitor profile symptom classic case study: www.gballard.net/windows_srgb/ PS if you are using a wide gamut monitor, try doing the sRGB test using a standard gamut monitor (because i think the wide gamut monitor is only confusing everyone) ... View more

you should have read the whole thread. Fair statement; but I think the phenomenon becomes a bit easier to observe (and articulate) when a user understands the color-management basics (and I didn't read that into the OP). In any case, the WhackedRGB colorspace unmistakenly jumps out when the profile is ignored or wrongly assumed — this is a very valuable teaching and troubleshooting tool — with Whacked RGB it is evident color management is either working or it is not. The first thing I would look at is how the suspect app deals with profiles. Bridge and Photoshop should be displaying the tagged WhackedRGB files properly every time. Bridge should be displaying the untagged WhackedRGB with the hard blue cast (because Bridge assumes sRGB on untagged files). Photoshop can display Whacked RGB properly IF the user ASSIGNS WhackedRGB... I don't know about Lightroom, but it should be obvious with the two WhackedRGB files. That is where I would have went with this. If that's not hapening the buggy/corruption theory would be next (if the apps were displaying as expected or is something else is happening). ... View more

Of course (for anyone following this thread), WHACKED RGB is an even more dramatic tool to troubleshoot this type of problem (I just added a Whacked RGB print resolution file to my above download link): Tagged with embedded profile WhackedRGB.icc: Exact same file except its embedded profile has been stripped: If you are using a color-managed Web browser the difference between tagged and untagged should be dramatic (very bluish)...if you are using an unmanaged browser, both files will look exactly the same (because they are both having the same default profile applied). My point is: drop these files into your problem apps and see what's going on... ... View more

hi, i couldn't follow this thread, but if you want another approach, please go here http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/pdi_download/ and download the ProPhotoRGB test image (it will be in a 15mb .zip) open the ProPhotoRGB (ppRGB) file in your apps and let me know which apps have the problem tip: also drag the ppRGB .jpg icon into your open Web browser windows (in addition to IE, use a color managed Web browser like latest Firefox and/or Apple Safari) ... View more

Try creating an OS New User account first and try to duplicate the problem — if the Photoshop problem clears in a New User — then trashing your old User Photoshop preferences is a first step to track down the corruption or bad setting. I would opt for manually dragging the suspect preferences to the desktop (or dragging your backup set in place) so you don't lose all your settings... ... View more

Gator - yeah, it's very much like the printing industry. Thanks, Chris, I thought I had set up a decent analogy to make my point to the OP. But you certainly have a way of holding your own in these conversations — if I only had a bigger brain (nah, I'll stick with my common sense)... ... View more

Okay, I'll bite We understand, and use, ICC profiles for print all the time, so please stop this 'you don't understand' approach. I got very confused following this thread so I went back to the OP: I need to have Photoshop show me an image without any colour management at all. However, no matter what settings I try the image in Photoshop always looks different to the same image opened in a program that is not ICC complient. This is causing me serious problems. What do I need to do to turn off all ICC management? Hmmm... ... View more

I have been discussing with my clients the concept of ICC based calibration for DI, and not one has understood the possibilities. This reminds me of the printing industry a few years back: The classic example is the old-school print shop's clueless "color expert" who ignores our embedded profile, because he says, he has "turned color management off" and "doesn't use profiles." He tells us our file is bad because his print is bad, and he will try to correct our bad color and print another round of proofs. Does this sound familiar? What the cave man actually did was strip our embedded file of its profile, and/or he Applied-Assumed-Assigned his own working space to our file — then he takes a sledgehammer and beats our color up into his closed workflow.... Of course, savvy print workflows today have adopted color management steps and modern standards of CMYK mixes, ie, ICC profiles, to make their lives less of a crap shoot. If I know what the "mix" is — I can PROOF (view) and edit source files faithfully in Photoshop on calibrated monitors, and I can PROOF (view) it faithfully on a printed contract print before sending it downstream. Moreover, if I CONVERT my color to the proper "mix" (profile) of CMYK (or your target DI standard), I can send it successfully downstream tagged or untaged — the danger occures (just like in the printing industry) when someone downstream wants to look at the file (or make a conversion) and doesn't understand what he's doing... You may find this basic rant useful for the theory: www.gballard.net/psd/cmstheory.html +++++++ I like to think of Photoshop (in the context of this discussion) as merely a PROOFING device to evaluate the color. For that you will need a good ICC profile for your Target/Destination viewing space — and learn how Photoshop (and unmanaged proofing devices) deal with profiles and color spaces)...just like the print industry is doing. Otherwise, as Chris said, you are working in the 1980s. ... View more

I believe the key here is to understand what monitor profile your target app defaults to, and in Photoshop: Edit> Convert to (target) Profile. With a good monitor profile, in Photoshop, Soft Proof it by View> Proof Set Up> Custom> Device to Simulate: Target icc profile PS: I should add, I am not recommending to set Monitor RGB as Working RGB in my above screen shot — I am only pointing out how to verify what monitor profile Photoshop is using. ... View more

Andrew Rodney (wrote here previously): since PS5, the architecture has been such that Photoshop always makes some assumption about the numbers for previewing and conversions using ICC profiles. You can try and turn it off but it's always looking for a display profile for previews along with an embedded profile in a document. Even if you strip out the profile, Photoshop is still going to make an (assumption) about the numbers, again based on some ICC profile. In any case, I would pay very close attention to what Chris Cox added until you completely understand what he is saying. But I am curious, how you are running Photoshop with no monitor profile selected in Photoshop? What profile is listed under "Monitor RGB" in Photoshop> Color Settings> Working Spaces> RGB? (click on the RGB and you should see the drop menu as pictured here): Whatever Photoshop is using for Monitor RGB is the profile Photoshop is Applying/Assigning/Assuming to your file (for all practical purposes) when you don't color manage your file. Monitor RGB profile there also is the profile Photoshop displays through (ie, Source Profile to Monitor Profile). This is the same profile Photoshop Applies/Assumes/Assigns when you View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB ... View more

I've pulled the trigger on a new 2010 MacPro I replaced a perfectly good late 2006 Mac Pro with a early 2008 Mac Pro when I was crashing CS3 and CS4 at will and everyone was telling me I had bad hardware (after two zerowrites and start from scratch installs with only the OS and Ps installed). The problem followed the new hardware. Now eveyone knows why (a couple ACR bugs I identified, Quickdraw, TextEdit, 10.5x) the list goes on and on... 10.6 and CS5 updates fixed most of my crashing problems - but now I have to go back to my 2006 Mac Pro (10.4) to use my fonts without crashing on endless font problems under 10.6.  That and I still move all my Adobe printing to the 10.4 machine. ... View more

Hi, I don't have an answer for you, but I have never seen anything as convoluted and confusing as trying to Assign-Convert-manage ICC profiles in InDesign, Illustrator - Acrobat PDF color management is a bit better... Those teams could learn a lot from the Photoshop team when it comes to Color Settings, Assign & Convert to profile features. PS: or at least writing their help manuals that clearly explain how their features work (or in some cases how they don't work) ... View more

I believe that nailed it, thank you The Info Pallet gave me exact X-Y center point, with "From Center" also checked, one click popped my circle into registration...nice Adobe engineering. ... View more