Alternate ways to access the User to User Forums

Report · Sep 19, 2001

We're working on new ways to access the Adobe User to User Forums.

Right now the primary way to access the forums is via the web using an HTTP interface. But it is also possible to access the forums as newsgroups (NNTP).

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Interesting. I think Aandi's one of the most helpful guys in here.

I'm pretty sure Aandi's his real name.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't work for Adobe.

Hey, Tom G., if he thinks Aandi's answers are sarcastic, what's he going to think when he reads yours?? :-)

Rick

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Barry,

Thank you for a funny, funny post. It's good to start the day with a belly laugh.

Jeanie

Report · Jan 17, 2002

He certainly has the right to say almost whatever he wants on the forum. Saying he is helpful reminds me of some of my collegues over the last 40 years who, without any bedside manner, justify their bad communication skills with the comment that they get good results. Having been a physician for 40 years and a Sysop on Compuserve for a DEC group for several years, probably before most of you were born, I do have some feel for the results of poor communiation. When a doctor gets called at 4AM by a parent distraught with a kids 106 temp, Doc #1 says. 'Why are you calling me at this hour...call me in the morning' and Doc 2 says...'I will be right over but in the meantime do this and this and this and call me back in 15 minutes.' Of course all is well in 15 minutes at which point he says "I'll see you in the morning".

A response from you guys "yes, there seems to be a problem...we are working on it...but in the meantime..do this and this" would go a long way. Each person that expresses an opinion is representative of a very large group of people who have the same opinion and frustrations but just don't speak up.

In Response To _Barry_Shaklan_ · Jan 17, 2002

Barry,

Aandi is his real name, and he most assuredly does
NOT work for Adobe.

In fact Aandi is a self-employed software developer
who specializes in developing Acrobat Plugins under the "Quite" software label,
who lives in Scotland, and is one of the most knowledgeable folks you will find
in any of the Adobe forums. Not only does have an amazing amount of knowledge of
Acrobat, but also of Networking, Unix, Colour Management, Imposition and a host
of other topics.

Like all forum Hosts, he gives his time and
expertise here without payment. If I were you, I would take more notice of his
suggestions and advice. It would cost you at least $200 an hour any
where else.

--

Len
Posted from the
UK

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Barry,

I can find any number of examples of unhelpful sarcasm on the forums. Show me some of those from Aandi because I haven't seen any recently. I went to the Reader forum and looked at the last 15 posts from Aandi and didn't find any of them sarcastic. If a patient calls you and says, "I don't feel well," certainly you would ask for details. So, I'm asking for details.

My previous post in response to you might be seen as sarcastic, but I did think it entirely possible that you were simply looking for a fight by singling out Aandi.

Jeanie

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Thanks for your response. I'll try to get my point with a few examples.

THIS ANSWER DID NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE OR ADDRESS THE ORIGINAL QUESTION BY A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT WHO WAS LOOKING FOR HELP. IT WAS ANSWERED AS A SUBTOPIC TO THE QUESTION and rather jumped on another respondent who was trying to help.
I mean..everybody else knew what he was talking about when the responder said Acrobat Writer.

"I feel I should correct the last message, which has several errors.

1. There is no product called Acrobat Writer.
2. The product probably meant is just called "Acrobat" (rather
unhelpfully) which is sold on CDROM and can be ordered (not
downloaded) from http://www.adobe.com/ for $249
3. There is no legal source of Acrobat for download. If you should
come across anything claiming to be the full Acrobat (not Acrobat
Reader), please report it to piracy@adobe.com.
4. download.com appears to have made a mistake. It is offering for
download "PDFWriter 3.03 for Windows NT 4.0 - freeware". In fact, it
is not freeware, but an update for existing users of Acrobat 3.0
(something made clear on a later page). It is also NOT the software
referred to above.

Aandi Inston
---------------------------------------
In the following message, even Andy acknowleges he may be taken as sarcastic. It is hard to show sarcasm out of context....but this issue has been present since 5.05 came out....almost same complaint over and over.......

>I am having the same download problem as everyone else.

I hope you don't view this as sarcastic: there are many different
problems, caused by all sorts of different things. So it's no good
just saying you have the same problems as anyone else, because we
don't understand enough to help you.

>I go to the FTP site and have no idea what to do next.

What operating system do you have? (Sample answers: Windows 98, MacOS
9.2)

What browser do you have (Sample answer: Internet Explorer)

What exactly do you mean by "go to the FTP site"? What do you see on
screen?

Aandi Inston
==================================

This next message is grossly sarcastic in my view " 'EXACT'" This complaint has been made over and over and this persons specific details probably is relatively not significant in this case, although maybe technically correct. Same as I said about the doctor who can be rude but claims it is OK since the patient got well. Asking specifics with this specific complaint, when he personally is not trying to find the cure for, to me is akin to asking a patient who complains of sneezing how old ;they are, what there phone number is and what was the date they had Rubella vaccine.

Charles, what are the EXACT symptoms being reported by people? It's
not really possible to give general advice when problems can be caused
by such a wide variety of problems - bugs in Acrobat Reader, damaged
PDF, unreliable web site, poor video drivers, old incompatible
versions of Acrobat, user doesn't understand how to download, user
hasn't installed Acrobat... you get the picture, symptoms really
matter.

Aandi Inston
-----------------------------------

Jeannie, I appreciate your response and obvious real concern or you wouldn't have gone down to the forum to look. Sarcasm comes thru as different things to different people. Some of this stuff above comes thru as defending Adobe and the program..without ackowledging there is a problem. To me that is just as bad. Jeannnie, did you ever go to the emergency room with severe pain, or bleeding and they give you 25 forms to fill out first.......or better yet, did you ever have the need to call 911 and the operator seems to be asking indirect questions which don't get to the meat of the immediate life and death problem. That is the sense in these answeres, especially the last two. Thanks for engaging in this conversation.

I will repeat one thing from a previous message. If this man does not work for Adobe, then he has every right to say what he wants. But if he is working for Adobe, then my concern was for Adobe and their good products and the damage I think this type of response can create. I did not mean to single him out, other than if he is what seemed to me as an employee in view of his indirect defense of this program with obvious problem.s

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Thanks for your response. I'll try to get my point with a few examples.

THIS ANSWER DID NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE OR ADDRESS THE ORIGINAL QUESTION BY A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT WHO WAS LOOKING FOR HELP. IT WAS ANSWERED AS A SUBTOPIC TO THE QUESTION and rather jumped on another respondent who was trying to help.
I mean..everybody else knew what he was talking about when the responder said Acrobat Writer.

"I feel I should correct the last message, which has several errors.

1. There is no product called Acrobat Writer.
2. The product probably meant is just called "Acrobat" (rather
unhelpfully) which is sold on CDROM and can be ordered (not
downloaded) from http://www.adobe.com/ for $249
3. There is no legal source of Acrobat for download. If you should
come across anything claiming to be the full Acrobat (not Acrobat
Reader), please report it to piracy@adobe.com.
4. download.com appears to have made a mistake. It is offering for
download "PDFWriter 3.03 for Windows NT 4.0 - freeware". In fact, it
is not freeware, but an update for existing users of Acrobat 3.0
(something made clear on a later page). It is also NOT the software
referred to above.

Aandi Inston
---------------------------------------
In the following message, even Andy acknowleges he may be taken as sarcastic. It is hard to show sarcasm out of context....but this issue has been present since 5.05 came out....almost same complaint over and over.......

>I am having the same download problem as everyone else.

I hope you don't view this as sarcastic: there are many different
problems, caused by all sorts of different things. So it's no good
just saying you have the same problems as anyone else, because we
don't understand enough to help you.

>I go to the FTP site and have no idea what to do next.

What operating system do you have? (Sample answers: Windows 98, MacOS
9.2)

What browser do you have (Sample answer: Internet Explorer)

What exactly do you mean by "go to the FTP site"? What do you see on
screen?

Aandi Inston
==================================

This next message is grossly sarcastic in my view " 'EXACT'" This complaint has been made over and over and this persons specific details probably is relatively not significant in this case, although maybe technically correct. Same as I said about the doctor who can be rude but claims it is OK since the patient got well. Asking specifics with this specific complaint, when he personally is not trying to find the cure for, to me is akin to asking a patient who complains of sneezing how old ;they are, what there phone number is and what was the date they had Rubella vaccine.

Charles, what are the EXACT symptoms being reported by people? It's
not really possible to give general advice when problems can be caused
by such a wide variety of problems - bugs in Acrobat Reader, damaged
PDF, unreliable web site, poor video drivers, old incompatible
versions of Acrobat, user doesn't understand how to download, user
hasn't installed Acrobat... you get the picture, symptoms really
matter.

Aandi Inston
-----------------------------------

Jeannie, I appreciate your response and obvious real concern or you wouldn't have gone down to the forum to look. Sarcasm comes thru as different things to different people. Some of this stuff above comes thru as defending Adobe and the program..without ackowledging there is a problem. To me that is just as bad. Jeannnie, did you ever go to the emergency room with severe pain, or bleeding and they give you 25 forms to fill out first.......or better yet, did you ever have the need to call 911 and the operator seems to be asking indirect questions which don't get to the meat of the immediate life and death problem. That is the sense in these answeres, especially the last two. Thanks for engaging in this conversation.

I will repeat one thing from a previous message. If this man does not work for Adobe, then he has every right to say what he wants. But if he is working for Adobe, then my concern was for Adobe and their good products and the damage I think this type of response can create. I did not mean to single him out, other than if he is what seemed to me as an employee in view of his indirect defense of this program with obvious problem.s

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Barry,

You must be having a bad hair day. You're picking on the most helpful, most prolific user who gives freely of his experise.

The sarcasm you allude to is entirely in the eye of the beholder (you).

Computers are complicated. Users are entirely too prone to expecting their minds to be read when they speak of problems.

Aandi has done an incredible job of helping people here for years.

You have simply decided to be a pain. Have at it, but don't expect any sympathy from the regulars here.

Dave

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Barry,

In the case of the high school student, someone else gave a bunch of incorrect information. It is better to make those corrections than to let the student think that's the real answer. NOT everyone knew what he meant when he said Acrobat Writer. Did he mean to say PDFWriter? Acrobat Reader?

In the other examples you provide, Aandi asks for more specific information. Before you do surgery, you need to know more information than "It hurts." Does it hurt in the elbow? Does it hurt to move? There are many error messages. Reporting the exact text of the one troubling you will help Aandi and the others get you to an answer much sooner. Software behavior can vary depending on the version and the OS--asking for that information can only help get the answer sooner.

Please don't make more of Aandi's responses than is really there. Everyone is busy; spending time on sympathy alone doesn't help get problems solved and deadlines met. Rick, Len and Dave are correct: Most of us are very grateful for the time Aandi spends answering our questions.

Jeanie

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Physician, heal thyself!

If you wish to pick on someone for being sarxastic, why the hell don't you pick on me?

I am much more sarcastic, and caustic, than Aandi is. But then, I bite back, and Aandi usually doesn't!

Report · Jan 17, 2002

You're both sweethearts, Tom... you've just got a bigger growl!!

Having just spent time in Scotland with Aandi, I can say that he is a delightful person to know. It was an honour to have had the opportunity!! And I got to meet Len, too, for that matter... he's also quite the teddy bear!

And Tom... you may end up cooking me that dinner you've been promising me all these years! Did you get my email recently?

Report · Jan 17, 2002

JD bump... he was there too!! oh the memories! (should I post pics??)

In Response To Deleted User · Jan 18, 2002

Hi, Dorothy,

> oh the memories! (should I post pics??)
>
NO! I'll pay the money - pounds, euros or dollars?

(Guests can have a free tour at: http://www.bigjohnd.btinternet.co.uk/dkuk2/ )

Iechyd da! John
Merseyside UK
Written at Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:17 GMT, probably posted later.

Report · Jan 17, 2002

I'm convinced. I'll go back to bed and get up on the other side..

Do appreciate all your comments.

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Jus' one big happy family, Barry... with a few spoilers. Some get it and some don't. Welcome to the club.

Report · Jan 17, 2002

Doc,

When you have been around a while, you will realize that we are sometimes required to deal with some severly brain damaged people here (i.e. Mycroft "How di I open a .wri file?" 1/16/02 2:02pm ).

If we are to assist these people, we need all the facts, not just an outline of the problem, such as "every time I try to open a PDF file I get an error message. What can I do to fix it?" It's not like your medical practice where the guy says "Doc, it hurts when I do this" and you simply tell him "Well, don't do that!"

Report · Jan 18, 2002

Just nosing around but I can't resist this:-

Doctor, heal thyself

Len

Report · Jan 18, 2002

I thought I already said that!

Report · Jan 18, 2002

Gee, thanks, JD... you caught all my best sides. How big was that wide-angle lens you used again??

Report · Jan 18, 2002

Well, I haven't been in the Acro/Reader forums for a while... but boy did I just see what I thought I saw?? ...Aandi being ratted on for having a bad attititude? Barry, I've never seen you in the forums before, and for your sake I hope this is a "newbie" error. Aandi is one of the most helpful people you will ever find in the forums. He has a reputation (with lots of history here) for being one of the most easy going guys you'll meet. I could count on one or two fingers the times he has even begun to come "unglued" at which points MOST of us would have gone over the edge!

On the note of "Adobe Employees" ... don't count on it. Especially in the Acrobat forums. These are everyday, regular (except for Tom heh heh) people who happen to have real-world extensive knowledge of Adobe's Products. They receive no pay/compensation to help out the TONS of people coming to these forums daily for help.

Now I'm going to go do a search on your name to see how many people YOU'VE helped before you decided to come thump on Aandi.

Report · Jan 18, 2002

And the results are in:

4 hits in the Acrobat Reader forum, and 3 hits in the Photoshop Elements forum.

Barry, please AT LEAST spend some time helping other people FIRST before thumping on others who have been here for years day in and day out helping other people.

Report · Jan 19, 2002

>>These are everyday, regular (except for Tom heh heh) people<<

I'll have you know that, since I have been eating more salads, I have been quite regular, thank you!

Report · Jan 19, 2002

I used to be an extra large!

Report · Jan 19, 2002

Aandi is awesome. I appreciate his presence and his help. And, I don't care whether or not he is occasionally sarcastic; I don't perceive he is but he has certainly earned the right many times over.

Barry, am glad to see you are convinced ( Barry Shaklan 1/17/02 1:23pm ). ;?) I think you'll find, if you hang around long enough, that we are a slice of life, not everybody will get along all the time. We are also human and imperfect. And, stupid questions do exist, there is such a thing, and many of them congregate in the Acrobat forums as a result of the demographics of that user base.

Cheers,

Sean

Another non-Adobe hangout ;?P

Report · Jan 19, 2002

One last thing, last week in South Beach, Miami, I got to do a Tom Geschwender and sit on the beach with a daiquiri working on my laptop--until the 125th minute when Windows XP and my battery consipred to cause shutdown, apparently called "hibernation."

LOL!

Cheers,

Sean