How seriously do we take this point system?

[JayJhabrix]

Seriously, do points matter? Do you want them? Why if so, why, if not? Are points any good? Do points make you feel more secure? Are points pointed and sharp or are they blunt and blunted? Do points encourage you to answer questions or do they discourage you?

Points are not a line... but connecting two pints makes a line... So do points awarded in an answer draw aline and stop all further discussion?

I've been following threads in DW General and AI General. I notice that threads, by and large, stop far sooner than they would have. I put that down to the lack of participants for various reasons and the 'Correct' answer flag. So much knowledge and information is not being shared.

True, a lot of the posts came from the NNTP side... but a lot also came from the web side... these forums are killing all spontaniety.

However, the killers are:

1/ Lack of NNTP

2/ Points

3/ Correct answers

[pattyclarke]

Thank you for your response Ramon, but I'm not feeling the LOL right now. Here is a response I made about the point system in another thread yesterday before really looking into the issue.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1982800#1982800

I am a visitor to the community so this is not my battle, but I feel it does warrant pointing out (hee hee) the disappointment I feel for not properly executing the points to show  heartfelt gratitude. I went back to the thread and gave Jacob a correct response, hopefully that will right my wrong.

Patty

[pattyclarke]

Well I couldn't edit my previous post so here is a correction. I went back to the original referenced thread to mark correct answer for Jacob which was there a half hour ago, but now is gone. So sorry Jacob I tried, but I did give Ramon a correct answer on the LOL post because I could...

Patty

[Kath-H]

Hi Patty! As has been said, you didn't do anything wrong - the weird thing is that each question thread only comes with 2 'helpful' answer buttons - yet you managed to give out three Usually those buttons disappear once the two 'helpfuls' have been awarded.

There are plenty of problems with this points system - a person may spend weeks in one forum, dutifully and correctly answering questions about Flex or whatever - then turn up in another forum, where they are a complete beginner, wearing all these points and stripes and be mistaken for somebody who knows what they are talking about.

Also, awarding 10 points for a correct answer may cause others to ignore that question now, when in fact there's a lot more to discuss and explain. Not to mention a few peple are apparently coming to blows over the points

And ... the questioner might not know enough to recognise a good answer from a bad one. And any knowledgeable person who comes along can't 'mark' an answer as helpful, if it's not their thread.

We never needed to be bribed to answer questions before, a lot of people are pretty uncomfortable about it now. I didn't get what Jacob meant either but you *definitely* didn't do anything wrong - in fact you obviously have superpowers over the silly things

[pattyclarke]

Thanks Kath for the more detailed explanation of the points deal. I feel exonerated now from the recent posts that I didn't intentionally screw-up.

I have one more thought about points and then I'm done. If you can't turn in the points for prizes or free stuff, what's the point? The community obviously doesn't like it, and in my limited knowledge there doesn't seem to be enough positives from the "city leaders" to warrant the discourse.

Patty

[Guest]

I think it came as part of the Jive package that Adobe chose to replace the old WebX forums with.

And what a misguided choice that turned out to be!

[Guest]

Points are POINTLESS...

[Mark_A__Boyd]

Patty, how refreshing it is to hear that from somebody who is not a regular contributor to the forums!

As you've figured out by now, no regular contributors - the users who answer the vast majority of the questions in the user-to-user forums - feel that the points system is useful to anybody.

My own thoughts are that they are only useful in an entirely different environment - say sales department -> accounting department, or marketing <-> sales departments. And the accounting or other bean counters were probably the ones responsible for convincing the decision makers that any of this would be useful - TO THEMSELVES.

The points system obviously has no positive value whatsoever in user-to-user technical support forums where the "correct" answer is too complicated for the original poster to determine - and in some cases there IS no correct answer - or there are SEVERAL correct answers. And often enough a relatively unknown-in-Adobe-forums expert pops in and provides totally correct answers, yet that expert only appears once in a while when s/he has the time. In other words, they may not have earned points here by answering lots of questions, but they still could be the most expert user in the world for that given Adobe product. Should that person's answers be given less weight due to the lack of posts/points? Heck no!

And I guarantee you that the points I have accumulated (without fishing) have no real meaning should I start asking/answering questions in a forum where I am the relateive newbie. But for some reason, my points will appear there even though I may not have contributed answers in that forum.

Finally, you should DEFINITELY ignore points here for the simple reason that a small number of regulars have started many threads in many forums for the explicit and honestly specified purpose of gaining points.

So, what do points and post counts mean to you as a casual visitor? Actually, I should have asked that at the beginning of this post because I am truly curious.

Let me re-phrase that question. What did you think of points and post counts before you began reading this Forum Comments forum?

[Guest]

hi patty!

[JayJhabrix]

Hi Dave...

I think i owe you some points? Is there a thread open where i can, or should i start a new thread?

[Guest]

pattyclarke wrote:

Geeze, if a person asking for help needs to understand the point system, somebody better make it clear to us. I didn't even know I was the one that was supposed to check the helpful or correct answer box until Kath told me that. On another thread when I marked correct, thinking that I could choose helpful or correct as many times as it was responded to, the thread showed as "Answered" and I didn't think that was good. Because if my question shows "Answered" why would anyone waste their time giving their input.

A prime example of why this point system is stupid and should be turned off. Or is turning off the point system an extra expense tacked on by the Jivers.

[Michael Borbor]

You really don't like points at all guys , that's the good thing about forums you could agree or disagree; but the important thing is to have a meaningful discussion.

[Jacob Bugge]

Patty,

I have been away since last night. And now the sun is sinking behind the hills.

I am very sorry to have made you feel bad about anything. The Capitalization thread is one of the threads I have enjoyed the most since the days of the fair forums, before.

I, and Ramón, have been among the earliest and strongest opponents to the giving of points, even in the test period, before the new forums became reality, hence the jokes about punishment and retaliation.

Please rest assured that the points have no value. Your friendship has.

[JayJhabrix]

Jacob Bugge wrote:

Patty,

<snipped>

Please rest assured that the points have no value. Your friendship has.

Well said Jacob... That's what it's all about... though, i'd add respect, as friendship doesn't alway happen ; and the point system takes that away,,,

Hey, want some points? Let me know and i'll start a new thread... After all, points are a begging...

Cheers!

JJ

[Guest]

Please rest assured that the points have no value. Your friendship has.

fairly spoken jacob. you can't ask for better than that.

[Guest]

Erm Dave, this all arose in a thread about CAPITALISATION!  

[JayJhabrix]

John Joslin wrote:

Erm Dave, this all arose in a thread about CAPITALISATION!  

Nope, it arose in a thread called, "How seriously do we take this point system?" wherein one post referenced a thread on 'Capitalisation' as an example of the idiocy of the point system.

[Guest]

JayJhabrix wrote:

Nope

well dave got it!

[JayJhabrix]

John Joslin wrote:

well dave got it!

Dave got what?

[Mark_A__Boyd]

Take a closer look at any number of dave milbut's posts and you'll probably get it, too.

[Guest]

dave gets it... it was quite... quite... well, edifying.

[JayJhabrix]

Mark A. Boyd wrote:

Take a closer look at any number of dave milbut's posts and you'll probably get it, too.

Still don't get it... his 17k+ posts??

Dave help?

[Jacob Bugge]

Just a summary of some of earlier threads and statements, and a bit of  elaboration:

Apart from the fact that any kind of ranking divides forum  members, as does the whole appearance, and apart from the possible misleading  and the inevitable shallowing of threads, as we warned against, it seems that  the points in themselves are repeatedly proven bad in numerous subtle, and less  subtle, ways.

In the days of the fair forums, at least in the Illustrator  (Windows) forum, there was often an ongoing healthy and innocent sport of giving the answer first, if possible within the minute of the OP, just for the fun of it, and the 30 minute  edit option was sometimes used for joking comments/predictions of following  posts. Also, it was custom to step back if others had made a good answer that the OP needed elaboration upon, unless you knew from their normal hours that they would not be back for a long time, especially if the OP had a deadline; now, you can only step in on behalf of others at the peril of being punished with their points, and even worse if they actually want them. And there was time for exchanges of knowledge and inspiration, and for friendly banter. All that may be(come) lost, too.

After a considerable effort in this forum, trying to prevent  and amend, I have tried to resume my participation in the other forum(s), and to do it in the same way as in the the days of the fair forums.

I suppose we are all dealing with the losses, issues, and  annoyances, in different ways. The forums have lost at least one contributor expressly because of the points, and others avoid the unpleasantness of seeing them by simplifying the forum look. I have chosen not to make the new look, and the  points, invisible, thus seeing what most forum members see, and hoping to see it all go away.

Here are a few threads about the pointlessness of  points:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1132570#1132570
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1133300#1133300.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1927404#1927404

And a bit about other losses:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/294108

Unfortunately, in itself the point giving seems to cause possibly irreversible damage. Recently, I stumbled upon something about behaviour which may be summarized in the Selfishness vs. altruism section here (the day care experience being a real horror story):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Bowles_(economist)

Although the points represent intangible wealth, as does karma status mentioned in one of the links above, it sets members apart, and the effect is undoubtedly the same.

So it is something to take really seriously.

But to live with it, we shall have to try not to.