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Fr__Watson
Fr__Watson
Participating Frequently
September 16, 2009
Answered

Jochem van Dieten Must Be Relieve of His Moderator Status (Mark II)

  • September 16, 2009
  • 16 replies
  • 37711 views

The first thread on this matter seems to have been deleted, presumeably by Mr. van Dieten

It is my assertion that Jochem van Dieten has abused his moderator's priveledges by innappropriately deleting threads and posts with which he does not agree. He has been rude not only to some of the more 'curmudgeonly' forum members, but also to those whom are not troublesome (Claudio, 'GreenJumpyOne' are two that spring to mind). He has been arbitrary-seeming in many of his decisions as moderator; he has shown himself hostile, uncooperative and on occasion childish. He has not, seemingly, been held to account for his reprehensible, unprofessional conduct, and is (IMO) a disgrace to Adobe Corp. He has no 'people skills' and is thus an exceptionally bad choice for the position of moderator.

If you agree, please say so. If possible, give some examples of Mr. van Dieten's behaviour which illustrate my assertions above.

I am posting this partly to give people who wish to have a venue to complain about censorship (and other) issues may do so without taking up more space in another thread.

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer Kath-H

    Kath-H wrote:

    Why would it be important that somebody is human?

    So you have no sense that you are dealing with people (who tend to be human) ?????

    I am merely asking you why it would be important that somebody is human. I can think of many possible reasons for that, but instead of presuming a convenient one and attacking that one (a.k.a. a straw man attack) I am just asking you for yours.


    The fact you can even ask the question speaks for itself.

    16 replies

    Show previous replies
    A
    Anonymous
    September 16, 2009

    The Forum Hosts come from the Adobe Community Experts program.

    Most of these so-called "Experts" are so far removed from anything resembling being an "Expert" that the title is meaningless.

    Allowing these people to become Forum Moderators was almost as bad an error as adopting Jive; and Jochem van Dieten is a prime example and is a major reason why I no longer contribute to these Forums.

    He has driven away virtually every erstwhile worthwhile contributor to these Forums and the discussions are now so lacking in substance (as a result of losing the REAL Experts) that I very seldom even look at them any longer.

    I whole-heartedly support the request to relieve Jochem van Dieten of his Moderator Status.

    A
    Anonymous
    September 16, 2009

    It's a pity a few more of the really helpful and knowledgeable people like Ann don't pop in and voice their disgust.


    (Maybe not in this thread though.)

    I avoid the use of the term "expert" since it has become tainted for me.

    Harbs.
    Harbs.
    Legend
    September 16, 2009

    I disagree.

    I do believe that Jochem has made a few mistakes in his moderation,

    but only a few. If you refer back to the first posts on the subject,

    as soon as there was moderation OF ANY KIND, everyone came down VERY

    HARD, on anything Jochem did. The comments on this forum were getting

    out of hand and moderation was needed without question. Jochem

    responded at first to question why people came down so hard on his

    moderation, and no-one gave him an intelligible answer.

    In Jochem's position, I don't believe I would have done any better

    than him -- probably much worse.

    I have been subscribing to the Forum Comments since the forums

    switched over, and have every post ever made here saved in email. The

    only deletion I can think of which I don't agree with is the recent

    issue with Ozzwoman. If anyone wants to question any deletions, I'll

    be happy to refer back to the originals!

    There's always going to be issues with clashing personalities, but I

    believe it's unreasonable to expect a moderator to not be human. Why

    should a moderator have to be subjected to constant ridicule, and not

    be allowed to make any mistakes of his own? I think that all

    considering, Jochem has exhibited tremendous self restraint in how he

    responded to issues.

    Harbs

    Fr__Watson
    Fr__WatsonAuthor
    Participating Frequently
    September 17, 2009
    I think that all  considering, Jochem has exhibited tremendous self restraint in how he responded to issues.

    I disagree.

    If, by "self restraint", you mean that JVD has not launched any great verbal tirades, from what I have seen, I would agree. I do not consider this, however, as self restraint on JVD's part; he comes across to me as emotionally shallow, and, IMO, you have to have a certain amount of emotional 'oomph' in you to flame someone.

    But that aside, it is, IMO, Mr. van Dieten's tremendous lack of self restraint in the application of his powers of moderator which has, IMO, contributed greatly to the acrimony and hostility which now exist in this forum. Locking threads, or deleting posts was, in times before, used by the moderators very rarely, and usually to stop a conflict which was occurring. Mr. van Dieten, on the other hand, locks threads (it seems) if he perceives that they are "off topic", as in this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2244541#2244541

    Discussing the acts (real or imaginary) of Congress to make laws that

    violate the first amendment here is off topic so I am locking this thread.


    I think that is a pretty trivial reason to lock a thread, don't you? Mr. van Dieten seems to have some strange feeling that the forum will collapse, or something, if a thread or post he deems "off-topic" exists!

    Now, you would have Mr. van Dieten to be made out as a victim here, but I would like to remark on how he has responded, on occasion, by attempts of forum members to be positive and helpful.

    JayJhabrix User
    JayJhabrix
    1,174 posts since
    May 14, 2003
    Currently Being Moderated

    Aug 4, 2009 1:00 AM

    The happy camper...

    Who says Adobe customer support is all bad? Here's a happy camper:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2152196#2152196

    Jochem van Dieten CommunityExpert
    Jochem van Dieten
    751 posts since
    Apr 8, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Aug 4, 2009 1:02 AM in response to: JayJhabrix
    Re: The happy camper...

    Discussions about customer support do not belong here.


    And Mr. van Dieten locked the thread.

    Is that not remarkable and wondrous? That someone should attempt to lighten the mood with a post about a happy customer. In response, the moderator curtly says such things do not belong & locks the thread. Does this strike you as helpful? I hope not. Does it strike you as likely to cause hurt feelings/resentment? I commented on this at the time. My post was deleted.

    Again, using the moderator's powers for trivial reasons. People get resentful when people in positions of power or authority use those powers trivially.

    Imagine for a moment I were a moderator. Suppose I said "The topic of this thread is "JVD must be relieved etc." Your post was off topic so I am removing it. Please start your own thread called "JVD is doing a great job etc". How would you feel, I wonder?

    One last example....

    I did already quote how Mr. van Dieten, in response to a constructive suggestion from a forum member, said instead he would not,  and would continue to not do so. In addition to being childish (one of the few human traits Mr. van Dieten exhibits), it also shows bad judgement, hostility, and it escalates conflict.

    I have wasted enough time.

    You think Mr. van Dieten has showed restraint? I disagree.

    J
    Jochem van Dieten
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    That first thread you mention, would that be 

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2184990 ?

    Ozzwoman9
    Ozzwoman9
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    Thanks for linking to that thread. The post I was looking for was linked in that thread.

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2242730#2242730

    The Poster here was dissatisfied with your moderation and I posted in that topic that they should visit the thread that you just linked http://forums.adobe.com/message/2184990 (how ironic), and I let that person know that he/she was not alone in their dislike of your moderating skills.

    So Jochem, you care to tell everyone here where my responding post to that person went? It was in the Feedback forum which is where you told me that the post I brought up yesterday should have been left.

    We are all entitled to an opinion. Just because it isn't something you like or is against you doesn't mean you have to delete it.

    J
    Jochem van Dieten
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    That post went to /dev/null. And if you scroll up in that thread you will see there is a message there that actually says:

    ANN: if you wish to discuss moderation, do so in a dedicated thread in the Forum comments forum, not in a thread about another subject

    Did it really come as a surprise that that message was removed?

    Fr__Watson
    Fr__WatsonAuthor
    Participating Frequently
    September 16, 2009

    I did assert that JVD was on occasion childish. Here is an illustration of both his childishness AND his rude behaviour:

    JayJhabrix wrote:

    In any event, you could well have remedied the situation by spelling out the name and asking me to kindly use the correct name in future.

    I could have. I didn't. I will continue not to do so in the future. I am after all a poor, heavy handed host.

    (The second quote is, of course, by JVD.)

    Location in this thread:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2162566#2162566

    Ozzwoman9
    Ozzwoman9
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    Here is my response from JC:

    The Forum Hosts come from the Adobe Community Experts program.

    I will talk to Jochem, but right now I don't think he is totally out of line.

    John

    I replied back asking him if he has seen the deleted posts and if he has read the comments other users are making about his moderating skills.

    Perhaps, everyone needs to take a few minutes today to send JC a message.

    Now, the question I want to know is, who is in charge of the Adobe Community Experts program? (who gives a moderator his/her moderating status)

    This is all I can find, no names or anything:

    What criteria does Adobe use to select experts?
    Adobe selects those who best exemplify the program fundamentals of product proficiency, enthusiasm, and professionalism towards Adobe and the customer base.

    A
    Anonymous
    September 16, 2009

    Send a private message to JC as well. Mr. Deleten can't delete that.

    Ozzwoman9
    Ozzwoman9
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    I have sent a PM to a different employee.

    Anyway, that employee I contacted is looking into the process and said that he/she would get back to me.

    In the mean time I'm sending JC one too. Maybe others should as well.

    Kath-H
    Kath-H
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    Agree. Rude and obnoxious.

    http://forums.adobe.com/people/John%20Cornicello

    Ozzwoman9
    Ozzwoman9
    Inspiring
    September 16, 2009

    I agree!

    And I have posted my examples recently, both here and in other places as well.

    And for the record, yes this topic is about the forum operation (so it needs to stay)!

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