Reported for Abuse

[Guest]

Gosh, it seems like there are a number of us who got reported. 

I'm amazed, really, as I haver *never* been reported for abuse in the 10 years I have been on this forum.  Yeah, these forums have changed and I am not convinced it's for the better. 

[Ann_Shelbourne1]

Me too!

The Moderator and his freinds must be running scared if they are lashing out this wildly at any comment which draws attention to their inadequacies!

The comment of mine that was deemed "abusive" was this one and there is not a single profanity in it anywhere — it was a just a direct, and totally sincere, response to a question that had been posed previously:

Subject: Re: Jochem van Dieten Must Be Relieve of His Moderator Status (Mark II)

Quote: "Why do you think these forums are merely for advanced users?" /Quote

The whole point is that there is now absolutely +nothing+ to interest "Advanced Users" in the Photoshop Forum so the "Advanced Users" have left and no longer share their knowledge and the novices therefore no longer have the opportunity to see the serious discussions which used to fill those pages. The result is that the novices no longer have the chance to learn the program in depth or become "Advanced Users" themselves.

Until last April, I considered the Adobe Photoshop Forums to be the "University of Photoshop". It is no longer — now it is just a crutch for the newest or laziest of users.

You obviously are more comfortable in an over-moderated Kindergarten environment than in that of a University.

Posted: 10/2/09 9:40 AM

I am saving all of the Topics that display such over-bearing censorious incidents as PDFs as I have a feeling that we are going to need the evidence of what is occurring here!

[Jochem van Dieten]

Ann Shelbourne wrote on 10/13/2009 6:57 PM:

The Moderator and his freinds must be running scared if they are lashing out this wildly at any comment which draws attention to their inadequacies!

You are misunderstanding something. Moderators act on abuse reports. If

I see something abusive, I fix it. It is the users who use the "Report

abuse" link, not the moderators.

[Guest]

Is there a notice somewhere which details the names of the moderators in each forum?

It would eliminate some of the confusion!

[Kath-H]

On the other hand some abuse reports are rejected as unjustified.

[Jochem van Dieten]

John Joslin wrote on 10/13/2009 8:23 PM:

Is there a notice somewhere which details the names of the moderators in each forum?

No. Generally obvious stuff like spam that is reported through the

"Report abuse" link is dealt with on a first come first serve basis. For

the less obvious stuff people tend to stick to an increasingly smaller

comfort zone, which may be just one forum.

[Guest]

umm, Jochem, how does your last reply answer the question John asked?

John Joslin wrote on 10/13/2009 8:23 PM:

Is there a notice somewhere which details the names of the moderators in each forum?

[Guest]

I was too scared to ask. 

[Jochem van Dieten]

greenjumpyone wrote on 10/13/2009 8:56 PM:

umm, Jochem, how does your last reply answer the question John asked?

The "No" wasn't enough?

[Guest]

Sorry, I read that as part of the rest of the paragraph, not as the answer to his question.  Had it been set off as a separate thought, I might have seen it differently.  My bad.

[shunithD]

jochemd wrote:

It is the users who use the "Report abuse" link, not the moderators.

Mmmm... that's what you say...

Where's the proof?Or how can you prove that a moderator didn't report that post for abuse? Most unlikely a non-moderator would... no reason to... Therefore, it must have been a mod or mod-inspired.

QED.

[Curt Wrigley]

shunithD wrote:

jochemd wrote:

It is the users who use the "Report abuse" link, not the moderators.

Mmmm... that's what you say...

Where's the proof?Or how can you prove that a moderator didn't report that post for abuse? Most unlikely a non-moderator would... no reason to... Therefore, it must have been a mod or mod-inspired.

QED.

I can confirm that moderators do not use the report abuse button to report people.  Mods act on the reports made by users.  If you've been reported, its by a fellow user.

[Guest]

Curt Wrigley wrote:

I can confirm that moderators do not use the report abuse button to report people.  Mods act on the reports made by users.  If you've been reported, its by a fellow user.

Am I correct in thinking that the term users in the above context also includes "community experts" who are not in the forum where they are moderator?

[Curt Wrigley]

Moderators are also users of the forum, of course.     Sorry if the terms I used were unclear.   The point I was re-enforcing is mods do not generally use the report abuse button.

[Guest]

I wouldn't put it past LT to be going around reporting people he does not like for abuse.

[Ann_Shelbourne1]

When we saw the first preview of the Jive Forum, a number of us pointed out that the mere presence of a "Report Abuse" Button was an invitation for spiteful mischief.

It seems that we were right: The use of the "Abuse" Button is obviously being abused with malicious intent.

It's high time that we either got rid of that button — or the name of anyone who uses it should be posted for all to see — together with a clear description of their reasons for clicking it in the first place.

[~graffiti]

Ann Shelbourne wrote:

or the name of anyone who uses it should be posted for all to see — together with a clear description of their reasons for clicking it in the first place.

I doubt that would stop at least one of the abusers I can think of.

[Guest]

Ah yes, the list of reasons to throw Jive into the trash can grows longer (if that's possible).

I doubt Jiveware has such capabilities.  Maybe hiding the button, but showing abuse reports publicly?  Nope.  We, and mods, are just going to have to live with the spam and nonsense from people like "LT" or whatever, simply because it's in the forum software as an option to be abused.

How do we report someone abusing the report abuse button?

[Curt Wrigley]

If someone is abusing the Report Abuse button, it is obvious to the moderators.  That is the reason the abuse reports are moderated rather than completly automated.

[Ann_Shelbourne1]

And when the "Moderators"/"Community Experts" are the Abusers — how do we curb THEM?!!

And that is where most of the trouble in this particular Forum originates.

[Jochem van Dieten]

Ann Shelbourne wrote on 10/14/2009 9:21 PM:

And when the "Moderators"/"Community Experts" are the Abusers — how do we curb THEM?!!

You start your own forum where you are the moderator.

[Guest]

Remember that suggestion I had awhile back about doing that...

[Ann_Shelbourne1]

You start your own forum where you are the moderator.

That is a somewhat arrogant response, don't you think?

Your job as a "Moderator" is surely to try and moderate (calm-down) the mood of this Forum rather than stirring the pot further?

We  never had the acrimony that has developed in Forum Comments since you and the other former-Macromedia-Forum people marched in here and started throwing your weight around.

[Jochem van Dieten]

Ann Shelbourne wrote on 10/14/2009 10:35 PM:

That is a somewhat arrogant response, don't you think?

I think it is factually correct.

We never had the acrimony that has developed in Forum Comments since you and the other former-Macromedia-Forum people marched in here and started throwing your weight around.

You seem to have your timeline confused. Moderation started here in

July, and I became a moderator in August. Do a search for yourself to

see when people like JC left due to the atmosphere.

Me starting to moderate here is a direct consequence of the atmosphere

that had been building in the months immediately after April.

[Ann_Shelbourne1]

The "Community Experts", all of whom seem to have their roots in the Macromedia Forums, arrived here in April.

The original inhabitants of this Forum were almost entirely from the original ADOBE Forums and the huge resentment felt by everyone from having the perfectly horrible Jive software and interface thrust upon us to accomodate the new Combined Forums was NOT helped by the arrival of these sanctimonious self-satisfied "Community Experts".

Your misfortune was to arrive in the middle of that mess wearing yet another one of those despised "Community Expert" Badges and to then start throwing your weight around too!

You may be inexperienced as a "Moderator" but when existing long-time members of considerable standing find it necessary to start threads asking for your dismissal, that should have been a clear indication that you were not handling the job very well. The fact that a whole hoard of "Community Experts" then descended on us to support you (regardless of whether or not that was done at your instigation) has only made matters even worse.

What has happened, directly as a result of their interference, is that we now have a severe division in this Forum between "Them" and "Us".

I am afraid that I do not think that you have the ability to improve matters here — and just jack-booting over the original members and "Banning" people is only going to make matters worse.

If  you want matters to calm-down, and normal discussions about purely "Forum Operations" to resume, you have simply got to either back-off or simply resign.

And the same goes for your "Community Expert" colleagues who have made one thing abundantly clear to all of us: namely that they have absolutely no skills in handling a "Community" regardless of whatever "expertise" they might have in other fields.